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Supplements - Pomegranate Extract

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Posted 6/10/2013 11:24 PM (GMT 0)
Before I forget, Peter, thanks for locking the recent episode of "All My Children".

Anybody taking pomegranate extract? Any comments on it's effectiveness? Some say to take 1,000mg/day. I currently take these supplements on a daily basis:

Lycopene 30mg

Vitamin C 1,000mg

Fish Oil 2,000 IU's

D3 4,000mg

Aspirin 325mg

Am starting IMRT/IGRT probably next week. A little anxious (No cracks from the nut gallery, Peter yeah )  but will get it done!!

Btw, Redwing, thinking about you with your IMRT to start in July I believe. You will do fine!! My doc says I must drink two small bottles (forgot oz's) of water 1 hour before treatment to keep my bladder full.

Best to all,

Robert 

Posted 6/10/2013 11:35 PM (GMT 0)
Robert,

Good luck with you upcoming radiation.

Is your RO familiar with all the supplements you are currently taking? Some RO's don't care, and others do. I wasn't on any at the time of my salvage radiation, but my particular RO wanted to make sure that I wasn't on any. Might be worth asking if you haven't already had this discussion with your RO.

david in sc
Posted 6/10/2013 11:54 PM (GMT 0)
Good point David. Radiation Oncologists need to know what supplements you are taking.

As far as Pom...there are a few studies showing a slowing of PSA doubling time I believe, but the jury is still out and probably will be deliberating for a long time.
Posted 6/10/2013 11:56 PM (GMT 0)
Robert,

I would suggest you talk with your Radiologists about taking Pomegranate while receiving IMRT. I understand taking antioxidants with concurrent with external radiation is not recommended.

When I had Proton Beam Therapy, they allowed me to restart antioxidants two weeks after the end of treatment.

...Jerry

Posted 6/11/2013 2:14 AM (GMT 0)
Of your supplements, I believe that POM has the greatest potential of doing you some good. A recent article has suggested that fish oil has no cardiovascular benefit. There is very limited information that is does anything for prostate cancer. Vit D is ok if your blood level is low. I doubt it will do anything for your prostate cancer (IMHO). Lycopene has been shown several times to have no impact on PC. It would be better to consume foods that contain lycopene than use the supplement.

I always hate to be negative on this. I have been on every supplement known to man (exaggeration).
I have taken vitamin E, selenium, beta carotene, lycopene, vitamin C, fish oil, blah, blah, blah. As the literature on these substances improved, I discontinued them.

There are a few prescription drugs that look potentially useful....metformin, statins (like Lipitor...though recent articles have been less impressive) and Celebrex (if prone to heart disease, I would avoid this one).

Thanks
Paul
Posted 6/11/2013 2:56 AM (GMT 0)
Thanks for that info. My RO knows all my supplements and meds and has not said anything about stopping them, but I will check with her tomorrow. Oops, I forgot a few:

Selenium 200mg (just started)

Pravastatin 20mg

Effexor XR 150mg

Trazodone 25 to 50mg at night for sleep only.

Most of the supplements are recommended by Dr. Scholz and/or Dr. Snuffy Meyers. I have also been on a semi-Mediterranean diet for 4+ mos. No dairy, processed sugar, or sweets other than fruit (fructose), only meat is salmon, red wine, salads-spinach and kale, etc. I sure miss a good pie or cake, my no sugar ice cream, and dark chocolate um. I am down to 156 lbs. from 168 - 170....6'0". Sometimes I try to forget I have PCa because I have no symptoms except for a few HF's from the Lupron. I still believe think most cancer is caused by the foods we eat containing pesticides, arsenic, preservatives, and other chemicals. 

Robert

 

Posted 6/11/2013 7:54 AM (GMT 0)
The 1000 mg of Vitamin C, the lycopene and the selenium (I assume you meant 200 micrograms -- 200 mg would be highly toxic) would raise red flags -- my RO wanted me nowhere near them during treatments - afterwards is fine. I assume you're taking them for some other purpose. Anti-oxidation and free-radical absorption is the opposite of what you're trying to achieve with the radiation. There's no data to prove they're harmful -- but why test it on yourself?

The best thing you can do to protect healthy tissues and sensitize the cancer is exercise - rigorously everyday. It will also help prevent fatigue and mood changes.

The only supplement that I've looked at that may radiosensitize the cancer and protect healthy tissue is soy isoflavones. Possibly (but I wouldn't fall on a sword over) are silibinin (milk thistle), resveratrol, omega-3s, and quercetin. Available by prescription are statins, Celebrex & Metformin. I'd wait till after RT for gamma-tocotrienol.

I wouldn't assume your RO has looked at the detail of the list you provided him on your supplements -- I would ask him directly. I've seen doctors glance at things and not pay attention. Remember Mr. Gower the pharmacist in It's a Wonderful Life?

- Allen
Posted 6/11/2013 12:04 PM (GMT 0)
This is good info. thanks. I will be starting SBRT soon, and will discuss this with my RO. Right now, I only take a multi-Vitamin, Fish Oil, and low dose aspirin. I drink POM, but don't take the suppliment. My RO is a big proponent of as close to a vegetarian diet as possible (she's ok with fish and a little chicken, but only a few times a week). I read the China Study on her suggestion and it's a real eye opener. I have been exercising 6 days a week since February, and will continue on with that as it's a great stress reducer althong with all the benefits.
Mike
Posted 6/11/2013 12:18 PM (GMT 0)
Thanks, Allen. I will contact the RO today, but regardless, my sense based on your research is to stop all those supplements until radiation is finished. I am glad I posted about this!! Makes you wonder what else the doctors miss that we have to manage sad  but pay them big bucks to do. Yes, the Selenium is 200 mcg. What about the Effexor and Trazodone?

Btw, I think it was Dr. Meyers who said he believes Selenium actually kills cancer cells. How could that be?

I asked my Family doc. about Meformin when I saw him in May. He was concerned about effect on insulin. I have two friends who are diabetic and take Metformin. Their doctors told them they shouldn't have to be concerned about PCa. Both are age 67. One has PSA of 1.1 and the other 3.0. 

Robert

 

Posted 6/11/2013 12:40 PM (GMT 0)
Hi Mike,

Do you have a link to the China Study. I see a diet and supplement review from 2008 and one in 1998. Or, is it a book?

Robert
Posted 6/11/2013 12:58 PM (GMT 0)
The china study was a book based on epidemiological study.
I was on selenium once and a nutrition oriented doctor test my blood level. It was extremely high on the supplement. She said I should never take selenium again.
Once your radiation is over, I would recommend other polyphenols besides pomegranate to include green tea and broccoli. There was a recent article about 4 polyphenols that found a significant benefit. Good luck.
Posted 6/11/2013 2:33 PM (GMT 0)
Robert,

Yep, I eat broccoli, brussel sprouts, and use green tea. There appears to be so many mixed opinions on supplements - certain prostate oncologists like Dr. Meyers and Scholz recommend limited ones. Then others are not in favor of them. It is confusing to know who is right. But, I have read that many docs no longer recommend a multi-vitamin. Anyway, seems if you eat right i.e., a strict mediterranean diet and moderate exercise, you should have overall better health.

Okay, I will stop on this subject. Thanks.

Robert

Posted 6/11/2013 3:26 PM (GMT 0)
Robert,

I can't think of any reason not to take Effexor and Trazadone. The recent trial from MSK indicates that daily low dose Viagra may be of benefit in protecting sexual function.

Selenium was tested in the SELECT study, a large random controlled trial, and was found to have no benefit. It also tested Vitamin E, which was found to have a deleterious effect. The study was actually canceled early when they realized men were being harmed. It stands as a warning against jumping on the results of early research before definitive results are in -- especially on supplements. Perhaps Dr. Myers said or wrote that selenium may be beneficial before the study results were in, and it may be beneficial in certain subsets.

I agree that Metformin looks really good so far. It may help radiosensitize cancer cells and cancer stem cells to radiation too. There are several clinical trials to determine how effective it is. Is your doctor concerned about your insulin because you're taking it? If so, he's right that it will mess with the right insulin dose for you, and your blood sugar would have to be closely monitored -- hard to justify with all that.

With all of these supplements, remember that their effect, if any, is minor compared to the radiation. I took some that were probably harmless and useless, just because it made me feel good to take some action towards taking control of my disease and its cure.

- Allen
Posted 6/11/2013 4:27 PM (GMT 0)
I'm a patient of Myers and he does not recommend taking selenium.  Years ago he may have suggested it, but not currently.

 

Posted 6/11/2013 4:30 PM (GMT 0)
Allen,

My RO just called and said to stop any antioxidents while on IMRT. She said they ahve completed calcs and mapping, and I may actually start treatment tomorrow or Thursday...they are to call.

I had thought about Viagra and will ask for low dose to take during treatments. The 6 mos. HT has caused ED, but we have not been too concerned about it at this point.

I am not taking Metformin. I just asked my FP about it for PCa. He was reluctant due to blood sugar concerns. Just so happens I am to have a blood panel this week. When is the Metformin trial to be finished? Personally, I think there is enough data for BC and other cancers for it to bee effective to prevent and reverse PCa....we will see.

Thanks you for info!!

Robert
Posted 6/11/2013 4:57 PM (GMT 0)
Time,

"the China Studay" is a book by Dr. T Colin Campbell.  Another good one is "the Spectrum" by Dr. Dean Ornish and talks specifically about PCa in part of the book.  I've read others "Eating Well for Optimal Health" by Dr Andrew Weil, and "in Defense of Food" by Michael Pollan.  They all argue that a whole foods, plant based diet is best.  Suppliments are confusing as some like one while others like none, and still others like a range of them.  Good diet and what you're eating is something there seems to be only minor variation on (for example Ornish likes Canola Oil better than Olive Oil which is more popular with most Doctors, but agrees with almost everything else.

I actually purchased all of these as audio books and listened to them in the car driving to and from work.  Good stuff!

Mike

Posted 6/11/2013 5:16 PM (GMT 0)
Robert,

I didn't look at your signature to see that you are on ADT -- I don't know how much protection Viagra will give with that going on because the MSK study did not include men on ADT. If the expense isn't an issue, I don't think it will hurt.

I don't know when the trials will be finished. You can go to clinicaltrials.gov and enter "prostate cancer" AND "metformin" in the search bar and check. You can perhaps show your doctor the following studies.

This one is a mouse study on the radiosensitizing effect of Metformin, but it's only a mouse study and it wasn't even prostate cancer:Metformin kills and radiosensitizes cancer cells and preferentially kills cancer stem cells

This one is a test-tube study on the radiosensitizing effect on PCa cells:
Utilizing metformin as a radiosensitizing agent in the treatment of prostate cancer.

This one, perhaps the most relevant to you, was a retrospective study of men treated with radiation. They found that Metformin use was associated with significantly lower PCa mortality compared with diabetics who didn't use it, or non-diabetic non-users:
Metformin and prostate cancer: reduced development of castration-resistant disease and prostate cancer mortality.

It may also enhance the effectiveness of ADT, as suggested by this test-tube study:
Metformin enhances the antiproliferative and apoptotic effect of bicalutamide in prostate cancer.

As you can see, there's nothing definitive yet, only suggestive. But if you're having high blood sugar problems anyway, it's something worth considering, imho. At least I haven't seen any red flags yet that might preclude its use, unless you're hypoglycemic.

- Allen
Posted 6/11/2013 10:01 PM (GMT 0)
Well, I got the call from RO office. IMRT treatment starts tomorrow 6/12/13, at 11:15a. I'm ready.

My glucose level in January 2013 was 105. Cholesterol was 164, HDL 51 and LDL 101 - ratio 3.2. Vitamin D = 54.4. I will ask the RO about Metformin. Will show her list of mighty mouse studies:).

Guess we all have to be smart and do our own research about supplements and drugs. There's a lot of money being spent on all this stuff. Not a good comparison of course, but our first Alaskan Malamute, Gabriel died of bone cancer at 11 yoa (actually put down) after I bought $500+ of recommended supplements trying to save him. Sorry, but it came to mind regarding this subject.

This is a great site with so much knowledge.

Best to all,
Robert
Posted 12/28/2015 2:05 PM (GMT 0)
There is post really interesting weblog.
Posted 12/28/2015 3:51 PM (GMT 0)
I finshed up radiation on Sept 8 2015, blood test 1/19/16, after radiation i began taking Ave/Ultra (fermented freeze dried wheat), Tumeric and Ginger root.....Will see how blood test comes out.....
Posted 12/29/2015 1:30 PM (GMT 0)
I started seeing Dr. Myers in July and he no longer recommends selenium. He has me on Curcumin, Pomegranite, Reservetrol and Omega 3 supplements. As part of the visit he provided a hand out with these recommendations as well as brand names that he recommended as being quality supplements.

When I underwent IMRT last year my RO recommended high doses of cranberry extract to sooth the urinary tract, it seemed to help. You want to take it in high doses since the body will rid itself of the excess by making you pee it out, thus providing the relief.

Ed
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