Traditional chinese medicine and prostate cancer

In China, people who can afford Western Medicine seek it out in large numbers. When the rich get cancer, they come to the United States for treatment if they can afford to....

You have a fairly large amount of Gleason 7 prostate cancer...IMHO, I would do the surgery THEN spend some money at the other shop if you like..Cover both bases..I would also find out EXACTLY what this alternative treatment involves...Acupuncture? Drugs? Herbal tea? What?

I think you'll find that this forum has a lot of people in it who are interested in supplements/diet/non-traditional medicines....and yet who are looking for evidence that they actually work. I'm one of those. The challenge is that there is a lot of anecdotal information out there, but very little real study and evidence.

The nice thing with PC, at the levels that your biopsy is showing, is that you DO have time to try things. They may even make you feel better. Will they reverse or slow the cancer process? The evidence for that is sketchy, at best. Personally, I wouldn't go there.

That being said, at your levels you also owe it to yourself to investigate the radiation therapies for PC, by talking to specialists in all the different methods. With organ confined cancer like you have, there is a lot of good success with brachytherapy (seed implant), and many men report fewer and less onerous side effects compared to surgery. Now, I'm a 'surgery guy', and I've had a great outcome with essentially zero side effects. Other guys aren't so fortunate.

Keep coming around, and keep studying. Let us know what you're doing.

If you use the herbs, be sure to let your doctor know. Some of them have 5-alpha-reductase inhibitors which may affect PSA without curing the cancer. As a result, your earlier PSA readings may have to be discarded and a new baseline set for future monitoring.

You have a LOT more choices, and ones with good scientific data, than the ones you mentioned. As halbert said, be careful of confusing anecdotes with medical evidence. Read the sticky for the newly diagnosed.

Halbert, Gemlin, Tall Allen and F8: Thank you for your wisdom and advice. They are very helpful in my decision making.

Tall Allen: It is a very good point to stop TCM before surgery. I will remember it.

I still hope that we hear from people who have personal knowledge or experience with TCM, hopefully in the context of Prostate cancer. I am a little surprised that of the more than 100 people viewed this post, not one had any direct experience with TCM or did not response. This by itself says something.

Any further wisdom and thought is appreciated.

fightPC said...
Tall Allen: It is a very good point to stop TCM before surgery. I will remember it.

That wasn't at all what I said. Not even close. What I was addressing was how you will know if your cancer is progressing or not.

There are probably sites about alternative medicines where you are more apt to find the confirmation you are seeking.

- Allen

First, if the TCM doctor cured some patients, why not ask him to get testimonys from them.
Besides, two cases seem not adequate. How about cases failed ?
Your case seems not seriously. Try his TCM in 2 to 3 months and test the PSA.(if the herb can help you, the PSA should come down and the tumor should shrink)
During this time, research other options, there are several options that the results can be equivalent to RALP.

People here are being very nice.
Frankly, TCM in this setting based on your description does not pass my smell test.

Mel

Hi Everyone:

Thank you so much for your wisdom and advice. They are very valuable to me in my decision making process. I am an man who trust facts and numbers. With more than 300 people viewed this post, no one has any personal experience with TCM to treat PC and no one has any positive opinion for it to be the primary treatment method for PC. All this convince me that I should not use TCM as a primary treatment.

I explored the surgery option before and felt very comfortable with the surgeon I talked to. I will not hesitate to do the surgery with him if surgery is finally chosen. I have not talked to a radiologist yet but I will try to setup an appointment for it. With my cancer confined within prostate and my age, I think the surgery is my best option but will make the decision after talking to the radiologist.

I appreciate your genuine help.

fightPC

Fight - yes surgery or radiation is better. You should have one or the other.

Sadly, I know of no definitive science that will prove either case.

The thought of surgery scared me so I went the RT route and am happy with my choice. My brother whose numbers were the same decided on surgery. He's happy with his choice. And after 4 years we each have about the same SEs.

Andrew

Fight,

I'm a big believer in evidence based medicine, and in the case of TCM, or most other alternative medicines, there is almost no evidence that they will cure PCa. There are a few studies that show that for very early stage G6 cancer, those men who are willing to undergo major dietary and lifestyle changes, have been able to stop further PCa growth and in some cases have G6 cancer no longer detectable under biopsy:

/www.ucsf.edu/news/2005/08/6319/lifestyle-and-diet-may-stop-or-reverse-prostate-cancer-progression

That said, remember the stages of grief we all go through, denial, anger, bargaining, depression, acceptance. During the bargaining phase, many of us have been where you are now, looking for something, anything really, that gives us a possible cure without the SE's associated with primary whole gland treatments. I went through the same thing, looking at TCM, and a few doctor's in Mexico and Asia that claimed to be able to cure prostatitis and/or PCa using natural or proprietary methods. In the end, I realized that the evidence simply wasn't available to support those claims, and that was my minimum requirement. I guess my point here is that we've been where you are now, and we understand your thought processes at this time. We are all here to help in any way that we can as you navigate the decision making process.

The only legitimate evidence based options I was considering/evaluating were focal therapies. There are some focal therapies available, such as FLA or HIFU, however given the multi-focal characteristics of PCa, the results for focal treatments are a mixed bag and warrant further research via trials that are currently ongoing. There are clinical trials available for MR-guided HIFU and FLA if you are interested (subject to location based availability of course):

/clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT01657942
/clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT02243033?term=FLA&rank=1

Personally, I went to the NIH for the FLA trial with Dr. Pinto, and underwent a fusion biopsy at NIH, however 1-2 biopsy cores that were positive for me were not MPMRI detectable, so I ultimately chose a whole gland RT treatment as a result.