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Whiskey, Tango, Foxtrot - Lupron, Taxotere and a rising PSA (Updated 7-8)

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Posted 7/7/2016 9:57 PM (GMT 0)
Well, hells-bells, and carp.

Just finished my 4th Taxotere Chemo treatment. As always they do blood work to make sure I can receive the treatment and as a part of that they run a PSA test.

You may recall that I posted the following at the beginning of the 3rd treatment, my PSA had only decreased 0.60 points from the previous test. PSA history this year; Lupron started March 2nd, PSA 143. May 4th, 1st Tax treatment, PSA 58.25. May 25th, 2nd treatment, PSA 47.75. June 15, 3rd treatment, PSA 47.65. July 6th, 4th treatment, PSA 53.60.

Well the game certainly changed this time around. My PSA has risen 6.0 full points in the last 3 weeks. Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, is that supposed to mean. Is the Tax interfering with the effectiveness of the Lupron? Is the Lupron losing its efficacy or are the two combining to just put me in a bad place.

I called and have an appointment with my Onco for July 19th, a week before I go through round 5 of the TAX. As I have been doing so extremely well on the absence of SEs, maybe the Tax isn't doing a farkin" thing at all. One thing I know for sure is that I am suddenly getting very tired of dealing with this crud.

Just an update, a mild vent and a plan to drink adult beverages for the rest of the day. I know that won't cure cancer, but at this point a few beverages short of total inebriation and cooking something good in the outdoor kitchen is the best plan I can come up with for today.

Grilling massive Ribeye steaks with Ancho Expresson Coffee Rub, grilled mixed yellow squash, Zucchini, sweet onions and grape tomatoes in EVOO and Balsamic vinegar, baked sweet potatoes and grilled peaches with vanilla ice cream with a great Red Cab.

Now I know that almost none of that is on the "Pca Let's Eat Healthy Plan", but it is going to be a whole lot more comforting than fish, salad and unsweetened decafe tea.

Going to make it a Bonus Day regardless of the other carp, otherwise what is the use of fighting so danged hard.

You folks go out and find some joy in the world today, I am finding it right here in my own little slice of heaven.

Sonny

Post Edited (Sonny3) : 7/8/2016 1:57:16 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 7/7/2016 10:07 PM (GMT 0)
Hi Sonny, I am sure someone else will chime in on the technical aspects here with the PSA, but I support your decision on the adult beverages and the darn good sounding steak! I was reminded yesterday by my Med Onc to eat healthy during my treatments and discouraged my love of filet mignon. Bonus Day! -JR
Posted 7/8/2016 12:13 AM (GMT 0)
Sonny, I'm picturing you at poolside n your backyard, livin those steaks, (and the adult beverage of course.) good memories there of the most recent gathering.
Your mental toughness and positivity continue to astound me. I am in awe.
Fight on brother, you will get to the bottom of this.
Posted 7/8/2016 12:18 AM (GMT 0)
Sierra Hotel India Tango, that is a crap deal to handle, but totally with you on a good serve of self indulgence. One good dose of what you fancy isn't going to do you any harm and is most likely going to make you feel a whole lot better.

Enjoy.
Posted 7/8/2016 12:36 AM (GMT 0)
Hey Sonny,
Sorry to hear about your rising PSA. The bump will likely qualify you for second line ADT. Keep the faith. Mine started rising after the sixth session and I was immediately prescribed Zytiga. It has kept me at undetectable for the last six months. Wish I was there to help you enjoy the steaks. Best.
Posted 7/8/2016 1:08 AM (GMT 0)
Foxtrot Tango November.

Hang in there Sonny.

Something totally out of whack.
I'm with you on a little self indulgence.
I had grilled chicken Cesar salad and cranberry cocktail for lunch but after yet another EBRT session went wayyyyy late, I had Rotten Ronny's on my way home with a coke and washed it down with some Moose Tracks ice cream.

Roger Wilco Rubber Duck
Posted 7/8/2016 3:35 AM (GMT 0)
It's called "treating the whole patient". :-)

Wish I was there for some of that particular treatment!

I hear the exasperation. I wish there was more I could do.

Hang in there.
Posted 7/8/2016 4:24 AM (GMT 0)
Hello Sonny,

Thanks for keeping us posted --- there are many of us "Chemo Comrades" here to support you, going forward.

Your oncologist will likely share some wisdom ---

That being said --- as some of our other brothers have shared, it might be likely that one of the new breakthrough medications like XTANDI or ZYTIGA might come into play, around the corner ...

After my series of chemo treatments were over, my oncologist and I talked about the "next step" and he put me on ZYTIGA --- other friends of mine who share my diagnosis were placed on XTANDI --- each oncologist usually favors one or the other --- I consider XTANDI & ZYTIGA to be "brothers" --- just for purposes of discussion.

Personal testimony --- I started ZYTIGA last August, just as my new school year with a new batch of students began --- my oncologist felt I needed an extra BOOST following my series of chemotherapy treatments --- I'm still on ZYTIGA and it has carried me through an entire school year --- for which I'm thankful. So --- there's definitely some approved options out there for you, if need be --- they are F.D.A. approved, and ready to go ---

Sounds like you did some relaxing and celebrating tonight --- I went to a restaurant instead --- plate full of grilled mahi mahi with all the sides --- and one dessert wasn't good enough, so I ordered two --- great food, great company tonight ! I''m getting up early tomorrow and going for a long walk to compensate for the double desserts ...

Keep in touch --- stay strong --- bonus day, coming your way --- TOMORROW !

I.S.U. "Cyclone Fan"
Posted 7/8/2016 12:04 PM (GMT 0)
Sonny,
I know that is not the news you wanted. I just want let you know I am thinking about you and your lovely wife. I hope the Florida east coast is treating you well. I lived in Tampa Bay for 19 years and still miss those summer thunderstorms.
SC
Posted 7/8/2016 1:48 PM (GMT 0)
Sonny:

On the surface, this does suck.

Hope the doctor can put a positive spin on this.
Mel
Posted 7/8/2016 5:59 PM (GMT 0)
What can I say, but that sucks.
give me a beer.

Here's hoping the doc has some answers,
Andrew
Posted 7/8/2016 8:00 PM (GMT 0)
Since we can't post pics here, I posted the pics of my "Get Over It" meal on the cooking site I belong to. Here is a link for those that may have interest of the meal I talked about cooking to find the joy in an otherwise carppy day.

eggheadforum.com/discussion/1197018/when-chemo-looks-to-be-failing-go-to-that-happy-place-and-farkin-cook-pic-heavey#latest

Enjoy, I know I did for sure.

Sonny
Posted 7/8/2016 8:39 PM (GMT 0)
What a beautiful happy place, Sonny. And a beautiful meal, too. Love your attitude! Wishing you all the best as you fight this Sierra Hotel India Tango. Sending good thoughts and prayers from New Jersey!
Posted 7/9/2016 12:45 AM (GMT 0)
Sonny-

You have been an inspiration to me for how to approach chemo with taxotere, so much so that I planned camping vacation time in Utah in last week of July (3rd week post 2nd infusion) before I even had my first go with chemo. You showed it could be done and I thank you for helping me to be positive and engaged in this stage of the fight. You continue to inspire me- thank you for sharing your outdoor kitchen and food prep on the other website; I can imagine how spending time there is a comfort and pleasure (and it made me hungry on my flight home today) that you can access regularly. I am very happy for you.

Yah, it is always a moving target, but there are more arrows in the quiver. Keep doin' what you do, it helps us all.

rf
Posted 7/9/2016 11:18 AM (GMT 0)
Sonny,

Quite the meal....looks great.

I'm not sure, but I would think given the close testing dates, that might be a fluctuation or blip. The drop from where you started is impressive.

Have you had any recent imaging?

I've seen where other chemo (Jevtana I think) might be effective if Taxotere isn't. Plus, plenty of 2nd line and 2nd generation hormone therapies to kick this back.

Hang in there,
Jerry
Posted 7/9/2016 3:23 PM (GMT 0)
I wouldn't rush to the assumption that taxotere is failing. In my experience, PSA is a wiggly thing during taxotere, and projecting a trend is risky business.

My husband has been on taxotere for 11 months, and has had some really alarming increases in PSA, followed by equally dramatic drops. The first couple of times this happened, I had explanations...he had low hemoglobin that interrupted treatment and saw a jump, and then a recovery as soon as treatment got back on schedule -- that sort of thing. The last one -- +200 points in three weeks. That'll give you pause. Worse yet, no good reason for it. Then some other health problems interrupted treatment, and I was really expecting a gut slug with the next PSA reading. Someone somewhere is trying to teach me my predictions stink, but it was a welcome shock this time -- dropped the 200 points we gained, and few extra for good measure.

Our doctors seemed less surprised than me, and reminded me they told me upfront PSA isn't as useful as an indicator during taxotere.

So don't rush to bad news. (I've found it'll wait patiently for me to get there :) ) In your case, I bet a pleasant surprise is in the cards some time soon.

Meanwhile, 11 months into this regimen, I think the steak was brilliant. Our doctors recommend eating everything that appeals, especially everything iron-rich that appeals. Taxotere messes with appetite and taste buds, and undermines your blood cell production, so for the long run, get some meat on your bones! And btw, one of the docs I'm trusting on this is Snuffy Myers, of the "watch your fats" philosophy. Even he told us last time that if he could write us a prescription for steak and donuts, he would.
Posted 7/9/2016 3:43 PM (GMT 0)
Infohound, I wish there was a like button for that post of yours. It's the best one I've read in a long time.

Sonny, hang in there man. I still contend that it's absolutely unproven that adult beverages don't cure cancer. The ribeyes were a nice complement to the whisky. You're a true medical innovator, you are!

Hope your onco is as upbeat and informative as Infohound.

Jonathan
Posted 7/9/2016 5:48 PM (GMT 0)
Infohound2, thanks for the very detailed and encouraging post. I am not quite ready to throw in the towel on this, just dealing with a perceived little set-back, that's all.

I am accustomed to my track history of every treatment I have had seems to work to a degree, with very little in the way of SEs. This has allowed me to put this carp on the back burner for long periods of time and just get on with living. So it came as a little shock that for once something may not work well enough to give me that "go on and live life break".

I appreciate you taking the time to post your story for me and I will hold off on the negative implications until I have a chance to meet with my Onco.

Thanks,

Sonny
Posted 7/9/2016 8:48 PM (GMT 0)
Sonny, I like your diet. I expect a house call with Dr. Jameson myself in a little while, and will make another appointment with the good doctor today in your honor. Best wishes!

NewspaperLover
Posted 7/10/2016 2:44 PM (GMT 0)
Sonny,

I think we both had the scans in Bethesda awhile back....have you had any scans since? I'm looking for similar imaging trials that I qualify for.
Posted 7/10/2016 4:00 PM (GMT 0)
Awe!!! I am so friggin envious of your happy place. And that meal!!!! What can I say, but I wish I was there. Sometimes all we got is a bunch of lemons and well, guess we just gotta make some lemonade out of it. Take care.
Posted 7/11/2016 8:43 PM (GMT 0)
Jerry, I had scans done at MD Anderson , Orlando just before I started HT and Chemo. Just everyday run of the mill CT scans that showed the 5 lymph nodes that I already knew about. I have not been involved in any other Diagnostic Clinical Trails recently, but that doesn't mean that I am not always on the look-out for others that will provide me with the info I need to make decisions going forward.

Sonny

Post Edited (Sonny3) : 7/11/2016 3:02:25 PM (GMT-6)

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