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HT -- how often can I go to the well

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Posted 7/21/2016 10:31 PM (GMT 0)
Got a question for the group.

I am on my second HT vacation (ie: doing intermittant HT).
I have basically been on HT (Lupron plus casodex) for a year and then off. My vacations seem to last 9-10 months. I am on avodart during the vacation time.


That 2nd vacation will end, probably in September, as my PSA is starting to rise.

I'm sure I will do scans and maybe SBRT if we are fortunate to only find it in 1 or 2 or so lymph nodes.

But, forgetting scan results, I was wondering how long I can be successful with the IHT protocol?

I realize it varies. I know eventually my PC will turn refractory.

But is it even reasonable to hope I can reach a 3rd HT vacation? What about a 4th?

Mel
Posted 7/22/2016 2:29 AM (GMT 0)
Nobody knows that, compiler...live...go...play...have fun...why serve the beast?.....
Posted 7/22/2016 2:19 PM (GMT 0)
On the one hand, I like Bozo's comment, "Why serve the beast?" Great mindset.

On the other hand, my scientific mind would also be interested in doing some data analytics, and you have some good source data right here. If you were to do a HW/PC poll (hint), what would be the well-worded question? Perhaps:

If you have completed intermittent androgen deprivation therapy (IADT) until you became refractory, how many IADT cycles did you end up having?
* 1
* 2-3
* 4-5
* 5+
* still on IADT; not yet refractory

I know that the last selection would not be necessary, but human nature is for people to NOT read the instructions, and you'll want to provide them a clear response selection...otherwise they'll skew the numbers to the low side just because they picked the cycle number they are on now.
Posted 7/22/2016 2:32 PM (GMT 0)
I am on my 5th off period in 10+ years.G9, sx then 6 years later Rad. Longest off-22 months (last one). Shortest was 9 months (first one). < 0.01 each on period
Posted 7/22/2016 2:35 PM (GMT 0)
Tar:

That's very hopeful.

Jack-- feel free to do survey. I prefer just asking the question and reading what folks say. The commentary can be helpful.

Mel
Posted 7/22/2016 2:44 PM (GMT 0)
compiler,
Have you considered Mayo and C11-Choline with Dr Kwon?
Posted 7/22/2016 2:59 PM (GMT 0)
Aleph:

That is where I went when first HT vacation ended and I plan to go back again.



Mel
Posted 7/22/2016 3:42 PM (GMT 0)
Here's my answer: You can go to the well until it runs dry.

More help info as the day moves on.

Andrew
Posted 7/22/2016 4:37 PM (GMT 0)
I should have answered your question directly compiler...in the same vein that in the shop said...living water never goes dry...tho its substance can and does change...
Posted 7/22/2016 4:38 PM (GMT 0)
I just came off my 5th vacation. My vacations only last about 7 months. I am currently a 7 1/2 years survivor of G9 4+5 cancer. Dr. Lam has now ordered Jevtana along with the Lupron. He is trying to make the triple blockade last longer.
Posted 7/22/2016 4:52 PM (GMT 0)
Everyone is different. Some men have made a life of starting and stopping HT. Chuck Maack, one of the early leading advocates is still around after ten plus "staycations" and approaching 88 yo. Conversely I have met men that went on vacations they should not have. You are clearly in between and as long as the disease cooperates then keep it going.

The question I have is whether you are getting quality vacations. Some men do the IHT protocol and don't get the desired effects in the "off" cycle.
Posted 7/22/2016 5:03 PM (GMT 0)
Tony:

I definitely get the desired effects during the "off" period.
Are you saying for some men the SE just continue unabated during the OFF period?

So far, HT sends my PSA down to undetectable very quickly. But when on vacation, it starts to come back after 7 months or so, with about a 1-month doubling time. So, first vacation lasted 9 months before I resumed HT. This one will be about the same.

I hate HT, but it is nevertheless tolerable.

I hate going to the gym and all of a sudden I have to reduce machine weight levels.

I can list the other SE that I hate, but I'm not in a whining mood at the moment.

But, again, it's tolerable and I am willing to continue in this fashion. Just wondering if I'll be able to and seeking others' experiences.



Mel

Post Edited (compiler) : 7/22/2016 11:06:18 AM (GMT-6)

Posted 7/22/2016 5:32 PM (GMT 0)
TY for the reply.

Yes for some men they do not recover their T levels to a level that voids the accrued SE's. I know for myself it was a 12 month journey to get rid of the hot flashes and gain libido but my T levels are still below low normal. SE's still linger but they are more cognitive than the physical (weight gain, flashes, etc.)

How long are your typical "on" cycles? Do you return to 0 then stop? Do you take a few shots then stop?
Posted 7/22/2016 8:12 PM (GMT 0)
Tony:
My "on" cycle is 12 months (3 4-month shots).

During this last vacation, I noticed my short-term memory lapse SE improved very quickly, but it has now worsened substantially the last 2 months, although I'm still on vacation. Strange. I just get memory GAPS and just have no recall, despite hints.

Yet, I can do math research or win poker tournaments. The SHORT TERM memory is what suffers. Very frustrating.

I'm sure this is due to the HT, and maybe a tad is normal aging

Mel
Posted 7/22/2016 8:25 PM (GMT 0)
Mel, at what PSA level do you go back "on"?

Post Edited (Chask) : 7/22/2016 2:28:29 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 7/22/2016 9:54 PM (GMT 0)
Generally between 5 and 9, I'm back on.

It gets tricky now, because I can't go back on until we do the scans. It might be 3-4 weeks before I can be scheduled in. Mayo does not want to even schedule it until my PSA exceeds 1.5, and they consider 2.5 as the ideal number to do the scan.

Mel
Posted 7/22/2016 11:02 PM (GMT 0)
telling someone to think a certain way just doesnt't work unless your intention was to piss them off.
Posted 7/22/2016 11:39 PM (GMT 0)
F8:

What are you talking about?

Mel
Posted 7/22/2016 11:54 PM (GMT 0)
Same issue here Mel,
Short term memory has waned a bit. Maybe because I'm ten year older maybe because the known issues with bicalutamide. In any case it isn't bad enough yet to cause me concern. Just frustrating when I realize it.

Good luck. And if the well keeps working there is no reason to not return to it.
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