Supplements - how much is too much

Pratoman,
You're D3 at 10,000 iu daily is a little too much 5,000 is probably better
Are you throwing your money away on some,I suppose I see your on a statin and niacin why niacin it lowers cholesterol the same as statin,blood thinner,baby aspirin thins blood also.
Aged garlic yes studies done by manufacturers are always suspect Coq10 is a good one ,pomegranate,that's what they say can't hurt
Both brands you buy are excellent .
I'm never sure that the supplement company can't afford to test.
The on
Y thing you cut out was a good malti vitamin,I think that should be taken.
I really don't know if any of the things you take are important but can tell you I take some also.not sure we will ever know

Prato, if your D3 blood level is optimal, then maybe you are taking the right amount? May I ask what is your blood level?

But I also am of the opinion that- whatever the supplement or even food being discussed- either we will never know, or it might be a long, long time. I am frustrated that what should have been a good study on vitamin D- yay or nay or neutral- appears to have just disappeared. FDA says it was completed a couple of years ago, but not a peep on it that I can find, though I have not searched again during the recent months. I'm talking about the one where, since they had pretty promising results using 4000/day D3 with men on AS(for a year I think), they decided to give the same amount for men scheduled for RP during the 2 months prior to their surgery, and then compare the path reports to men who got zero and see if there was any significant difference. Seems like maybe a year had gone by, and I e-mailed one of the authors asking when results might be released, and he responded that X thousands of things still had to be correlated before release. Now I think another 2 years have gone by, and no word. IMO another several similar studies should have been done and the results given to us good or bad.

Why is it we don't know the answers to these simple questions from unbiased studies? ( including no selection bias) It just doesn't seem that difficult to me. We should have solid answer on all of these foods and supplements by now. If the companies won't do the tests then the government should. Plus I suspect that many of the drug companies no doubt benefit one way or another from tax payer funds, but if they will not do these tests in an unbiased manner then someone else needs to do it. But no, we continue onward with the guess work.

Gemlin said...
Pratoman - just wonder, do you take take the 13 non prescribed supplements to make up for not geting all nutrients (proteins, vitamins, minerals, ...) your body need from the food or is also that you believe the supplements will give you an extra health boost that food can't give?
I don't take any supplements because in my opinion I will get what I need from food, sunshine, exercise and minimizing stress.

Well it is certain that if you get enough sunshine, without sunscreen, you will get all the VitD you need, unless maybe you have dark skin or live way up north. Or, maybe dead of winter might be a problem for many folks. But sunshine is natures way of providing that important nutrient.

@1013, why do you say 10,000 is too much?
The Niacin is taken for Triglycerides. I pushed the cardiologist to let me drop it, he agreed to drop it from 1000 to 500 mg , and we'll see next visit what he says bout eliminating it.
I actually talked to a nutritionist about the multi vitamin, she said based on my diet (lots of vegetables, lean protein, I can drop it)

@TA - You know me well, lol, I think your right, the supplements do make me feel like I'm taking a bit of control back.
Doc ok'd the K-2 and actually wants me to continue to take the baby aspirin, which I've been taking for years. I think he my take me off the blood thinner/Effient, as it's been 2 years since the stents were put in, and he did say 2 years.

@Billybob - if I recall correctly, my last test of D showed it at 60.
And yup, we've discussed this before, the lack of understanding/proof/trials when it comes to supplements and diet, and their relationship to various diseases is maddening. Same with diet.

@Gemlin - I take the supplements for various reasons, mostly because I don't think I am getting enough from food. As I mentioned, my magnesium and D were both low, now they are testing normal. Most people don't get enough K from foods alone. Cq10 is depleted by statins. Etc, etc.

Thanks for the responses. It is very frustrating. Even the controversy about dairy, eggs, red meat, as it relates to PCa, diagnosis and progression. We don't know anything for sure. And if we eliminate everything that are THOUGHT to hurt us, there's nothing left to eat.

Part of this is me trying to find a balance between enjoying life's pleasures, and turning the issue of my health (or lack of it ) into my life's work.

Post Edited (Pratoman) : 6/11/2017 5:37:53 PM (GMT-6)

Metformin and modification of lifestyle are two arms of delaying or preventing diabetes. I would prefer the life style arm. Supplements do not come without side effects, what do you feel when reading stuff like this: Study: Metformin Linked to Higher Risk of Alzheimer’s and Parkinson’s

Pratoman said...
Fuzzboxmans thread made me think to post this, something I've been struggling with.
There is a place for supplements.
Example: vitamin D-3 supplementation. I had low vitamin d levels, at diagnosis, I believe it was 27. I have been supplementing with 10,000 iu's daily (too much) and my D is now optimal.

But how much is too much?
Due to caoronary artery disease, I started doing a lot of reading. And I've been using supplements. Am I throwing money in the toilet? Dunno. Is it hurting me? Dunno.

I take about 18 pills a day. 5 are prescription, (BP, statin, blood thinner, niacin, anti depressant) plus baby aspirin.

I also take Vit K2,
magnesium (had low mag, now it's normal so that works too),
aged garlic (shown in studies to reduce plaque, but the studies were funded by the manufcturer 🙄),
CoQ10 - studies show that statins cause deficiency of this enzyme
Probiotic for gut health
Vit D
Pomegranate extract (slow progression of possible PCa BCR???
There are a few others, some of the above, I take 2 x a day

I try to buy reputable brands, like Solgar, Life Extension.

Every one of these has a purpose, a reason I am taking them. But by the nature of these things, there re no RCT studies, because the drug companies won't fund them and the supplement companies can't afford to

I often ask myself, what can I cut out. But I can't come up with n answer. I. Did cut out the multi vitamin, because I do eat a lot of vegetables. Tons of broccoli, califllowr, arugula, some kale.

Not sure there's a question here, just thought I'd offer (yet another) discussion on the subject.

Statin drugs can lower CoQ10 levels. In fact, studies show that CoQ10 levels can drop by up to 40% due to statin drug use!
(Source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8463436)

Low CoQ10 levels can be a concern because CoQ10 helps promote healthy heart function. This is because CoQ10 plays an important role in the production of 95% of the energy used by the cells in our body.
(Source: http://umm.edu/health/medical/altmed/supplement/coenzyme-q10)

The addition of a CoQ10 supplement to statin drug therapy can help rebuild CoQ10 levels. However, CoQ0 has poor absorption, therefore, you should choose one that is both water and fat-soluble which is better absorbed by the body than regular CoQ10.
(Source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=Plasma+coenzyme+Q10+response+to+oral+ingestion+of+coenzyme+Q10+formulation).

Pratoman said...


@Billybob - if I recall correctly, my last test of D showed it at 60.
And yup, we've discussed this before, the lack of understanding/proof/trials when it comes to supplements and diet, and their relationship to various diseases is maddening. Same with diet.........................................

Thanks for the responses. It is very frustrating. Even the controversy about dairy, eggs, red meat, as it relates to PCa, diagnosis and progression. We don't know anything for sure. And if we eliminate everything that are THOUGHT to hurt us, there's nothing left to eat.

Part of this is me trying to find a balance between enjoying life's pleasures, and turning the issue of my health (or lack of it ) into my life's work.

FWIW, I also take K2.

Ditto on the egg/dairy/red meat lack of true knowledge and controversy/conflicting results thing.

BTW, I e-mailed yet again-as I did a year or two ago- one of the authors of the supposedly completed(in 2015!) study where they gave guys 4000 IU/day Vitamin D3 for 2 months prior to their RPs, then to compare surgical path with the guys who got placebo, or if not placebo then just zero D3 given. I have not heard back from him yet. Now wouldn't it be nice to know the results of that kind of trial? In fact, why haven't there been several studies like that already? It sure would be nice to know if such is actually harmful. You would think people just don't want to know, going by the glacial pace of investigation.

Post Edited (BillyBob@388) : 6/12/2017 8:44:57 PM (GMT-6)

Thanks TJ