How Does One Know If Their PCa Diet Is Working?

I don't think you can tell if your diet is working. If you stick to an anti-PCa diet and your PSA stays low, it might be the diet at work, or maybe it would have remained low no matter what you ate.

Yes, even if your PSA rose after a year and you are following rigorous D&E, you'll never know if it might have begun to rise after 3 months if you hadn't done anything.

I think there's a psychological benefit to doing D&E. We know what the grim stats are, but by doing D&E, we believe we can do better than predicted. The positive attitude likely has an added benefit to outcomes too.

I know others with cancer (different types) who have a life-limiting diagnosis and have chosen not to eat anything different and maybe eat more bad things if it brings them happiness. Each to his own!

but i've always had good eye sight

^^ Exactly ^^ No double blind study and it's all anecdotal reports.

In a perfect world I would like to see Redwing follow Cashlessclay's diet to see if it markedly alters his projected PSA readings. Even though his results don't meet the rigors of a controlled study, his results are very interesting. It would be fascinating if a few of our brightest unlock something not widely realized.

It reminds me of Esselstyn's diet to reverse coronary plague. He has a rather large case load demonstrating a remarkable result with a very restrictive diet. It may be to get Cash's results, a restrictive diet is necessary. I wonder how many men would be willing to go that far to tame the beast.

Paul

Just what is "the PCa diet"? And how do you know that yours is the real one? Diets are not like treatments.

There is much debate over just what a "healthy" diet is or the "proper amount of exercise", in general. Then when we get to specific diseases we have even more debate, but no real proof. For PCa, whose diets have you studied? Michael Milliken? Mark Moyad? Snuffy Myers? Two are doctors. Two are PCa survivors. But they are all different and none have been proven to be effective in the same scientifically valid and reliable way that treatment methods have. So who is to say what will be effective or not?

While, I try to be balanced and moderate with my nutrition and movement, I am not kidding myself that it will have any measurable direct effect on PCa or any other health condition. Do what it takes to feel good and stay within the generally regarded guidelines and then be sure to have fun with the life you have. I personally don't think it is wise or productive to commiserate over diet and exercise.

My husband has been following what I consider an "anti-cancer diet" given to him by a physician at MSKCC. He is not on this diet due to his own inclination but because I insisted on it. The diet is about half vegan food, organic food when available, low glycemic, almost no sugar, heavy on plant-based food, and includes whole grain carbs and fish and skinless chicken. We also limit dairy to some milk in his coffee in the morning and with cereal when he eats it. He eats no more than 2 eggs a week.

He has failed both surgery and SRT and gets his PSA taken every 3 months. I look at the doubling time of his PSA and compare it with his diet. At this point his doubling time is not aggressive, and no treatment is recommended. The only time that his doubling time became more aggressive was a 3 month period in which I did not cook much vegan food. I don't know if the reason for the more aggressive doubling time was due to this dietary element. I completely changed his diet and started comparing it to his PSA doubling time about 2 years ago.

I have read a lot about anti-cancer diets and also heard nutritionists and physicians lecture about them. I did not listen to the lecture given by Greta McClaire, but will do so when I have a chance. There seem to be 2 themes that I hear about - one is low glycemic and the other is vegan. It would be impossible for us to strictly follow either diet. We are also not on a low-fat diet. My husband's doctor does not recommend this. My husband probably eats too many carbs - but if he snacks on carbs (whole grain) he eats them with a protein to avoid a sugar spike. For example, if he eats whole grain crackers he pairs them with hummus.

For me the most difficult thing is getting actual recipes that conform to this diet and also taste good. My husband is a very fussy eater, but since I like to cook I enjoy the challenge of finding delicious recipes that are healthy.

We are also not completely strict about this diet. If we eat dinner at the home of friends or family, we will eat what they serve. So my husband will occasionally eat meat or dessert. He also has a very small piece of dark chocolate a few times a week.

My husband exercises regularly. He cannot do it every day but he goes swimming a few times a week. He takes walks on the weekends.

I don't care if these dietary and lifestyle changes are not the true cause of his non-aggressive PSA doubling time at this point. They might be. Since I have found some great and also healthy recipes that he loves he is eating food that he likes.

I have followed your threads Cashless, and appreciate that you have shared your experience on HW.

Post Edited (bluebird123) : 8/4/2017 10:20:30 AM (GMT-6)

Wilderness, my thoughts exactly.
Redwing, I'm not trying to proselytize. I'm trying to inform.

Once it became apparent that I can influence PSADT I had to make
a decision; make an effort to inform others or just go on with my life.
I don't need the extra work and I'm not bored. But, it seemed
incredibly selfish to me not to share this.

Is the diet working?

Thirty five pounds gone.
LDL, almost cut in half.
Total C/HDL from over 6 to under 3.
Trig's cut from 200's to 50's.
PSADT measured in years versus months.

Do you really think this is by chance?

Certainly, the diet is not for everyone. My walking partner eats two bowls
of baked beans, had a full tray of brownies. Triglycerides over 700!
He's a year out from his prostatectomy. He knows what I'm doing.
He gets no flack from me. It's a personal choice.

I understand that to "proselytize" or to "inform" can get murky. But, to be fair,
if the results were so-so, it would sound more like informing. "Oh, he tried
some diet, didn't work so well, that's nice to know." Now, if the results were
over the top, it sounds more like "proselytizing" because it is stressful to many.
"Wow, it works, but I don't want to eat that crap, man this is stressing me out. . .

"I know, lets try the "There has been no peer-reviewed, meta-analytical,
systematic study of randomized, placebo-controlled, double blind, clinical trials
that prove efficacy." Yea, that should do it. No one can refue that! Hell, no one
understands what I just said, including me! . . . no 'colorful vegetables' on my plate."

(Just playing with you Tall Allen.)

By the way, what is "proselytize"? Some kind of new vegetable? Do you think
we can work it into the diet?

Cashless

The several oncologists I have seen all believed that following a "cancer diet" was beneficial. Low fat was one of the primary things mentioned. I go to a very reputable Nutritionist whose father died of prostate cancer and whose office is in a hospital cancer center. My oncologist knew her and was pleased.

All emphasize the need for exercise, especially maintaining muscle mass. ADT will cause you to lose muscle. Weight bearing exercise is good for bones, which you all know take a hit with mPC. I hate exercising, but I do enjoy how it makes me feel. It's important to try to keep something going during chemo. Those who stop often don't start up again. I know the folks at NIH (where I'm in a clinical trial) are very pleased that I'm maintaining exercise. They said something to the effect of "you wouldn't believe how many people just sit around like lumps during chemo"

Nutritionist's recommendations I recall emphasized: low fat, avoid carbohydrates like bread, pasta but DO eat fruit. Keeping a eye on sugar is very important. Avoid it to the extent you can. Read labels of food you buy. Eat a lot of cruciferous vegetables like broccoli. On tomatoes, she says they're good but only if roasted -- it brings out the lycopene. It's actually quite good that way. Soy is supposedly very good -- soy milk, tofu. Eat a lot of fish and lean meat, like chicken breast. Minimize red meat.

Each person has their own approach. The fellow mentioned above who effectively said "the heck with it, I'm going to enjoy life" -- I can understand that. We each draw our own balance.

In my case I generally follow the nutritionist's advice, though I'm not a fanatic about it. I "budget my cheats". I eat red meat around once per month but only if I'm really in the mood. If I'm out and to dinner and ice cream (my favorite) is available I eat it. If I really have desire for pasta or bread I eat it. I have an Outshine pop every night. I drink moderately.

Lastly, maintaining a positive attitude important. I my case the mere fact that I think this is part of the fight (you have to fight) improves my outlook.

(I don't have all the Dx abbreviations down, but mCSPC, ADT start 2/2017 PSA 240. Chemo start 5/17. PSA currently 2.03).

okay, I'll bite.... Out of control is like mental illness, right? Or an intractable child. I sure hope the people I come across are pretty much in control of themselves. A great example of self control is most any professional athlete (in training). Or anyone who perseveres to a doctorate (in his/her dissertation).

But then it's another thing to seek to control others -

I don't think we believe we can control our cancer cells. We want to give out immune systems the best opportunity to succeed in limiting the growth of cancer in us. We are not sure, but we've seen enough evidence, had enough experience to believe that there is a healthy lifestyle available to us. Everyone chooses to eat food, everyone chooses whether or not to exercise. Who is not controlling those things?

Wilderness

garyi, concerning flaxseed oil, here is Dr. Snuffy Myers' take.

www.prweb.com/releases/2010/07/prweb4305864.htm

Thanks, cashlessclay!

Snuffy knows what's he's talking about, and his facts are based on science.
So flaxseed oil may actually increase the rate at which prostate cancer grows. Amazing!

No flaxseed for me!!!