Confess your supplements, brothers! I'll start.

- Broccoli Sprouts (sulforaphane)
- Grifolan (Grifola frondosa) - we mix up our mushrooms, so I alternate this with Reishi, Chaga and PSP-50
- Probiotic
- Vitamin D 1000
- the occasional organic Neem tea
- Caduet - amlodipine besylate and atorvastatin calcium (cholesterol and high BP)
- Good Aussie Red Wine (a bit too much)!

Ddyss,

RobertC takes lycopene.

PeterDisAbelard. said...
We've been seeing complaints lately that the forum is excessively down on supplements. I generally agree with the anti-supplement types on the research. Most of the research on supplements, and their effectiveness for treating this or that, is of low quality. We could have a spirited discussion on whether the medical research on supplements is so hard to reproduce because it is about supplements or because it is medical research and even the better funded mainstream studies are difficult to verify (and often wrong.) But enough of that. I take supplements. Here's the content of my daily fistful o'pills.

irbesartan hctz ^a*
bupropion ^b*
oxybutynin ^c*
clomifene ^d*
human chorionic gonadatrophin ^d*
metformin ^ef*
prilosec ^m*


high EFA fish Oil ^g
krill oil ^g
nicotinamide ^h*
nicotinamide riboside ^hijf
acetyl L carnitine ^j
alpha lipoic acid ^j
IP6^ek
CoQ10^g
L-methylfolate ^j*
vitamin B-12 ^j*
vitamin D ^g*
vitamin K2 mk-4 ^g
multivitamin ^g
branched-chain amino acids ^gf
resveratrol ^f
Potassium ^l*
low dose aspirin <sup>g*

a</sup> : High blood pressure
^b : antidepressant
^c : supposedly helps with icontinence
^d : still trying to recover from post-ADT hypogonadism
^e : metabolic syndrome and related problems.
^f : makes mice nearly immortal
^g : general cardiovascular health
^h : may lower rate of regression for melanoma
ⁱ : a different, trendier, niacin precursor
^j : may help with neuropathy in feet.
^k : may slow cancer growth
^l : seems to help with morning leg cramps
^m : Barret's Esophagus (damage from chronic heartburn)
^* : recommended or prescribed my doctors

So, go ahead and beat me up. I'll mostly ignore comments, however expert, that say that this or that doesn't actually do anything. Why would i give up my lovely placebo rush just because some wet blanket at Harvard wants to rain on my parade. But I am eager to hear about studies that show real harm. Vitamin E used to figure prominently on my list. It doesn't any more.

Wow, PDA, I have to give it to you, that is one of the most spectacular lists of meds and supplements combined that I have seen! Like the mice in category F above, you may well be dang near immortal!


I am on no prescription meds and never have been other than temp things like a round of antibiotics. Although, a couple of months ago after my last uro/PSA visit, I did try one of the anti incontinence meds. I can't remember and I'm too lazy to go look, maybe it was Vesicare? One of the anticholinergics. Something to help with those little spasms I still get a few times a day, which cause me to have to clamp down in a hurry to avoid wet pants. They gave me some samples. It worked pretty well, cut the # and intensity way down. But I am a little paranoid about anticholinergics and brain health, plus they gave me a dry mouth. So I quit them for now, still have some samples left.

Now, as you may have suspected from some previous threads I have started, I am not averse to supplements and/or dietary interventions. I am often doing some combination and variation of these things. Starting with the things that I get mostly every day and have for a long time:
A: Vit D3 5000 iu/day- at least most days. Based on previous blood tests showing 2000/day a bit low and 10,000 a bit high. Plus, I get some southern sun a lot of days, and I usually skip if I am out in shorts at noon for more than 15-30 mins. Sometimes I'm out for hours, def skip then.(no sun screen)
B: Often(sometimes?) I take Vitamin A 8000 IU, or eat liver, but only if I have plenty of Vitamin D to go with it.(see Weston A. Price on the subject of Vitamin A and it's relationship to Vit D, they claim Vitamin D sups deplete vit A, and of course natural cod liver oil has very high Vit A ratio to Vit D )
............................................
C: Vitamin K mixture, mostly K2, most days
D: Berberine, many days( may have some metformin like effects and other benefits)
E: Turmeric with black pepper(for improved absorption) most days
F: Quercetin on and off, but eat as many onions as tolerance by other folks will allow, supposed to be very high in this nutrient.
G: occasional probiotics, plus high fiber foods that supposedly feed those good bugs.

That is about it for any regular basis, and some of those are not all that regular other than the D and K.
Side note: I'm going to confess this, though it may have some of you trying to do an intervention to protect me from myself. I got this from the same quack that informed me of D-Mannose for urinary tract infections ( a common problem -in the past- with a daughter) and Vit B12 for my shoulder bursitis: When I feel a for sure bad cold, sore throat, possible flu and/or lung infection coming on(have had 2 bouts of pneumonia -one concurrent with flu- in the past, combined with quick trips to the doc when I feel the warning signs of that coming on, take no chances anymore with pneumonia), now I take 15,000 IU vitamin D3 WITH 150,000 IU vitamin A. If not much better the next day, I repeat 1/2 dose. If still pretty bad 3rd day, I take a final full dose. So far, for at least 5 years now, I have only had to go to the 2nd days dose 1 time. I have taken the 1st dose at 11 PM after a cold/sore throat advanced all day until by bedtime I was starting to feel it heading down my throat/vocal cords towards my lungs. I know that warning feeling very well, and it always gets worse through the night. But I have taken that and felt it getting better through the night. Only once in 5 or 6 years have I had to take the 2nd dose, and I have not had to rush to the doc for antibiotics and breathing treatments even one time, knock on wood. I don't take flu shots, and have more than one person near me with the flu despite having taken the shots, and I have not yet gotten it. Had 2 contractors working in the house, both had flu shots, 1 comes down with the flu and can't work. The other is working alone in my house and the flu symptoms are coming on him as the day goes on. He wanted to try this concoction, and got some on the way home, and was back at work the next day feeling great. etc etc. Say what you will, have your fun, but I will keep taking it until it's wonderful placebo effect fails me. BTW, after one or 2 of those high doses, I don't touch either Vitamin D or especially Vit A, for at least several days..........

Dietary? I try to eat broccoli as often as I can remember, and add radish most especially if the broc has been cooked, as it supplies the enzyme in Broc which is destroyed by heat and which is needed to get the sulforaphane out of the Broc. Or so they say. So I often like some rad with my Broc. I try to limit the net carbs, which hopefully will keep insulin lower, as it seems many cancers grow a lot faster with high insulin(not sure about PCa though). But regardless, when I am fairly strict on the carbs, it does wonders for my waist and blood pressure, and in the past has done wonders with my triglycerides and HDL and stuff. A frequent breakfast is: strawberries(low net carb) and maybe some blueberries, walnuts(vit E2, high fiber, high fat, very low carb), ground flax seed(no net carb, high fat, very high lignans rumored to be helpful with PCa), maybe some coconut(no net carb, high fat). Along with either a soy or whey protein shake. Maybe this food is helpful with PCa, maybe not. Regardless, have to eat something, it taste pretty good, gives me plenty of fiber, and keeps me full a long time, seems to work for my low carb approach.

Post Edited (BillyBob@388) : 8/15/2017 9:30:04 PM (GMT-6)

JNF said...
I almost forgot one of the most important supplements I take for positive mental health and happiness.........

Every two weeks or so I have three thick cut pieces of hickory smoked bacon.

Works wonders.

I also take that mental health supplement at least once a week. In fact, this morning.

I have been advised over time by my primary care doc and my father's cardiologist to take half a dozen or so supplements. I have also researched and added or subtracted a few on my own volition. In addition, docs have added prescriptions to manage blood pressure, cholesterol, GERD, low testosterone, and low vitamin D.

Doctor approved supplements include CoQ10 (ubiquinol form) and low dose aspirin for cardio health, a vitamin B complex for cardio and energy, magnesium to offset statin and Gerd Rx side effects, and l-arginine and grape seed extract to minimize residual ED from my PCA treatment.

The sum of these has all my lab values right down the middle and the desired corrective action on original health concerns. I use the supplements as fine tuning rather than the sole answer to major issues.

PeterDisAbelard. said...
BillyBob,

It's good that you aren't on any prescription meds since that generally either means that you are fairly healthy and do OK without them, or that you are a weird hermit living under a bridge. Since you don't seem the weird hermit type -- OK, you don't usually seem much like the weird hermit type (we all have our moments) -- anyway, since you don't seem the hermit type I'll hope that means you are in generally good health.

I was going to say that it's not my fault that I take prescription meds since they were my doctors' ideas, not mine. But, looking over the list I realized that wasn't particularly true. A strong majority of my prescription drugs are things that I suggested and my doctors concurred -- even my blood pressure drug. Here's the list with annotations:

irbesartan hctz : I was taking lisinopril prior to my diagnosis with PCa and it controlled my pressure very well, but I found this study -- Current rehabilitation strategy: clinical evidence for erection recovery after radical prostatectomy -- and asked my doctor to switch me over a couple of months before surgery.

bupropion : During my two years of ADT I was on fluoxitine (Prozac) for depression/brain fog and it helped but I didn't like some of its side effects. My MO and I tried adding modafinil to offset some of the side effects but insurance wouldn't pay and it was expensive, so we switched to bupropion (Welbutrin) for my second-fiddle antidepressant. I have since dropped the fluoxitine but am sticking with the bupropion for now.

oxybutynin : this one is not my idea, nor my doctor's. My doctor wanted me on Vesicare. Oxybutynin was the drug of choice of my insurance company.

clomifene and human chorionic gonadatrophin : These were my idea -- OK, actually I head about them here -- and I talked my MO into letting me try them for my lingering hypogonadism three years after the end of my ADT. If they don't work we'll supplement T directly but if these drugs do work they would put me in a more-nearly natural state.

metformin : Talked my MO into this one, too. He wasn't too hard to convince. He's tried Metformin a couple of times himself but couldn't get by the GI problems some people have with it.

prilosec : Similar story to the oxybutynin -- my gastroenterologist wants me on Nexium but insurance won't pay for it. They will pay for Prilosec which is almost the same drug, but cheaper and not quite as good. So this is another drug picked out by my insurance company.

Thanks for the breakdown. It took me a while to find irbesartan hctz in that study of ED treatment. I was surprised to read that!

Diet Dr. Pepper
Tex-Mex
Steak
French Fries
Pastry
Water with lemon and artificial sweetener
Walk to the back door to let the dogs out
Pick up the remote from table next to chair
Pretty happy with life all n all

A number of you have mentioned your diets. When I started this thread I had thought to have a conversation about supplements, why we take them and what we hope they do. But on reflection, it is absurd to talk about dietary add-ons without a few words on the mainstream of our diets.

I don't talk much about my diet here since my diet isn't all about cancer and this is a cancer forum. What I try to achieve with my diet -- with middlin' success -- is to control my weight, my blood sugar, and other markers for cardiovascular health.

Just after diagnosis and six months prior to having my prostate removed I weighed 330 or so pounds. I struck most people more as big than as fat because I carry weight well and am 6'4". But I knew that thinner people recover faster and more easily from surgery so I decided to try something different and it seems to have worked. On a mostly-Atkins type very low carb diet I managed to lose 100 lbs. I have subsequently gained back 40 of those pounds but I still cruise 60 pounds lighter than before. Before I started the diet I did a bit of reading to convince myself that low carbohydrate diets weren't somehow a bad idea for prostate cancer. I found studies (mostly mouse studies) that showed a survival benefit for ketogenic diets. The studies seemed to say that a ketogenic calorie-restricted diet significantly reduces progression (in xenograft mice with human cancers) but that a ketogenic diet without calorie restriction showed no benefit. My takeaway from that was that a very low carb, occasionally ketogenic diet may or may not help with prostate cancer in humans but that it doesn't seem to do any harm.

There are an astounding number of diet plans out there. You can easily find one that says anything you want to hear. And maybe most of them work fine for various people but for me the low-carb diet described by Gary Taubes in his book "Why We Get Fat and What to Do about It" seems logical and seems to work, at least for me.

And, Tall, a 33 inch waist? I hate you! You could lock me up, starve me to death, and leave me out in the sun to dry, and the waist of my desiccated carcass would still measure 38 inches.

PDA, I enjoyed your post. I've read a ton about diet too, since my heart disease diagnosis. Have you read the book Wheat Belly, by dr WilliamDavis, or any off his other books? You might find his book interesting. He also has a website, 2 actually... cureality.com, and the newer undoctored.com

Vitamin D
Tumeric
Ginger
CBD (off and on)

Centrum Multivitamin
Low dose aspirin
Bausch n Lomb preser vision to combat my macular degeneration
Turmeric powder

Turmeric
Resveratrol
D3
Calcium
Fish Oil

Metformin
Crestor