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Personal Experience with Diet and Exercise

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Posted 1/26/2018 3:44 PM (GMT 0)
Cashless,

What type of soy foods do you eat? I would like to add some soy to my husband's diet so was wondering in what form you eat soy. Thanks.
Posted 1/27/2018 2:46 AM (GMT 0)
Bluebird, my go to soy is edamame. I buy this frozen at Whole Foods, organic,
and place one package in water, with some salt and star anise spice. Bring to a
boil and after about 5-10 minutes, turn off, cover it, and let it sit for a hour or two.

I also use soy milk once in a while, and tofu often. There is dry bean curd that
we use in a cold salad dish made with (thinly sliced) napa cabbage, cilantro, garlic,
sesame oil, soy source, vinegar, and red chili pepper. Adjust all to your liking.

I have some soy every day, and have had zero PSA growth with edamame alone.

Cashless
Posted 2/2/2018 5:18 PM (GMT 0)
Good video supporting diet.
www.ted.com/talks/william_li?utm_campaign=tedspread--a&utm_medium=referral&utm_source=tedcomshare
Posted 2/5/2018 7:58 PM (GMT 0)
I've been pretty much following your diet for the last month and just got my psa. It's 0.144, down from 0.2. Woohoo! Keep the broccoli and green tea coming!
Posted 2/7/2018 2:04 AM (GMT 0)

reachout said...
I've been pretty much following your diet for the last month and just got my psa. It's 0.144, down from 0.2. Woohoo! Keep the broccoli and green tea coming!

That is some fantastic news!
Posted 2/7/2018 4:47 PM (GMT 0)
I am also following cashless diet and hoping for better results. He is very smart guy to be able to control his psa with this precision and patience. I wish we call all share the diets with each other so we can tweak it for us and others
Posted 2/7/2018 5:24 PM (GMT 0)
Hi Ak123 -

following RP my PSA has maxed at .06 (very low) and is most recently undetectable. I've been on a diet inspired by cashless and informed by many since Feb '16. No sweeteners ever. No fruit juices. No processed foods. No meat. No dairy. No eggs. I eat bounteous vegetables and fruits. I eat fish, nuts and grains, including a fair amount of home made oatmeal bread. I use unsweetened soy milk; add tumeric/black pepper to garlic hummus. I add a couple of tablespoons of flax meal to oatmeal each morning. I take care to have cooked tomatoes in some form most days as well as regular fresh tomatoes - or what pass for them outside of local harvest season. Blueberries every day too and never from a store. Oh and coffee, and a bit of dark chocolate over 70%. Have you read Anti Cancer by Servan-Schreiber?

I hope you are able to delay HT. I wonder whether I could ever agree to initiate it, though there are many here who report doing fine on it.

Best to you
Wilderness
Posted 2/7/2018 10:24 PM (GMT 0)
Thanks very much wilderness. I have a few questions please:
1) the concept of cashless diet is to avoid sugar and iron spikes, so are the fruits ok ? I stopped all fruits all together
2) I use the same diet as yours with the exception of fruits and bread, i don’t eat ANY
3) how long did it take for you to see any psa reductions? Does it take months or years?i can see that yours went from 12/14 of 2.9 to 1/15 to .01. This is amazing. Is this because of diet only?
4) what is flax meal you add to oatmeal? Is this flax seeds? I add cinnamon to breakfast steal cut oatmeal
5) do you watch for iron spikes ?
6) do you take any supplements?
Thanks a lot and sorry for the many questions. I am very much interested in the diet.
Posted 2/24/2018 9:49 AM (GMT 0)
Just got another ultrasensitive PSA test result.

Last three tests: 0.483, 0.458, 0.439

The PSAHT appears to be between 15 and 19 months.

That is about where I want it, and should allow some
flexibility in future diet experiments.

My non-diet doubling time was, and still is, about 7 months.
That is more progress than I ever expected going into this.

Cashless
Posted 2/24/2018 1:29 PM (GMT 0)
Congrats Cashless! Brilliant. I just had a "good news" PSA result also.

Ak123 - I am sorry I missed your post and questions of 2+ weeks ago.

1) & 2) I eat fruits. My MD said stay away from melons and grapes - too much sugar, too little fiber. But other than that I eat quite a bit of fruit. Again per MD, berries are the best.

3) ORP was in Dec 14 - so that's what took my PSA down abruptly. I got on board with cashless's diet in February 2016 when PSA crept to .04, then .06 in short order. You can see the numbers in signature.

4) Flax meal is milled flax - coarser than flour. I understand whole flax seeds are not digestible. I buy Red Mill Organic from Amazon.

5) I don't know much about iron.

6) My supplements are Vitamin D, +50 multivitamin and CoQ-10 (because I'm on a statin) All recommended by MD.

How is it going for you?

Wilderness
Posted 2/24/2018 1:53 PM (GMT 0)
Wilderness, on the +50 multi, is the Selenium and vit E a concern? My husband stopping taking it because I read they were bad for PCa and all the multi vitamins I check have them.

Otherwise he pretty much takes the same things you are and he wants to start taking his multivitamin again but I'm nervous about that.
Posted 2/24/2018 2:28 PM (GMT 0)
I've been following this thread since it started and find it very interesting. On the one hand, there's all this ANECDOTAL evidence of guys here who've arrested post treatment PSA growth with careful attention to diet. On the other it makes sense to me that if you've been eating garbage for 60 years, what changes you make over a year or less won't matter (when it comes to PC). Back to the other hand, one can only conclude, if this worked so well for Cashless, Wilderness, and others, it's worth trying in earnest if one has a rising post treatment PSA.

So I can only conclude that I have an eating disorder. Because despite my knowledge about what's been going on here, and my last 3 post prostatectomy PSA's, starting at the 2 year mark, have been .02, .033, .033, and .046, (from January 2017 to November 2017) , I've been eating like pure garbage, including plenty of carbs, ice cream, cake, pastrami, and other junk.
I haven't tested since November and plan to do my next test the last week in March, or first week in April. Right now I'm fully expecting something like a .06-.07 .
I'm going to try to hit the reset button, although I doubt that proper diet will so much good in a time frame as short as five weeks.

This is more of a rant than anything, thanks for letting me do so.
Posted 2/24/2018 2:57 PM (GMT 0)

Pratoman said...
I've been following this thread since it started and find it very interesting. On the one hand, there's all this ANECDOTAL evidence of guys here who've arrested post treatment PSA growth with careful attention to diet. On the other it makes sense to me that if you've been eating garbage for 60 years, what changes you make over a year or less won't matter (when it comes to PC). Back to the other hand, one can only conclude, if this worked so well for Cashless, Wilderness, and others, it's worth trying in earnest if one has a rising post treatment PSA.

So I can only conclude that I have an eating disorder. Because despite my knowledge about what's been going on here, and my last 3 post prostatectomy PSA's, starting at the 2 year mark, have been .02, .033, .033, and .046, (from January 2017 to November 2017) , I've been eating like pure garbage, including plenty of carbs, ice cream, cake, pastrami, and other junk.
I haven't tested since November and plan to do my next test the last week in March, or first week in April. Right now I'm fully expecting something like a .06-.07 .
I'm going to try to hit the reset button, although I doubt that proper diet will so much good in a time frame as short as five weeks.

This is more of a rant than anything, thanks for letting me do so.

What he said. Ditto.

Cashless and Wilderness and whoever else has been doing this with such apparent success, congrats. Impressive. This reminds me of Ornish's experiments ( small #s ) with guys on AS I believe. He had great results overall, mostly improved, with pictures ( MRI I think it was ) of shrunken tumors. Although I alays wondered about that: if they were on AS, would they have tumors big enough to see on imaging? Anyway, those results got my attention. As do these. I may be forced to relent and make some major changes!
Posted 2/24/2018 4:35 PM (GMT 0)
Do you guys ever wonder if these difficult diets just artificially suppress PSA, proving nothing about potential BCR, long term PCa avoidance, and quality of life?

I realize many of us have to DO something to feel like we may be controlling the beast....but can we, really?

Prato, I so want your PSA to stay stable, or come down. Both for your emotional/physical health, and so we can then all eat like you, without guilt or recriminations. smilewinkgrin
Posted 2/24/2018 5:09 PM (GMT 0)

garyi said...
Do you guys ever wonder if these difficult diets just artificially suppress PSA, proving nothing about potential BCR, long term PCa avoidance, and quality of life?

I realize many of us have to DO something to feel like we may be controlling the beast....but can we, really?

Prato, I so want your PSA to stay stable, or come down. Both for your emotional/physical health, and so we can then all eat like you, without guilt or recriminations. smilewinkgrin

I do in fact consider that, and certainly anything is possible, and we will probably never have the controlled studies to tell us for sure. However, with any PC treatment, if the PC goes down, or even stops increaing, it is considered a good sign, and in fact it is usually about the only sign we have to go by, until mets show up on scans. So, should we do any different for diet, lifestyle or supplement results? For me, I am going to count a PSA decrese or becoming stabel a good sign until proven otherwise.

Plus, with that small Ornish study, they also had Bx and scan improvements, all in response to diet. So it may actually be that something can be done that helps, even if only a little. Now the problem is figuring out exactly what helps, because we are not going to see many RCTs on these attempted DIY interventions. Or they are going to come along slow as molasses. That is obvious. There just isn't much interest among those who do the research.
Posted 2/24/2018 5:31 PM (GMT 0)
How true BillyBob. No matter the real or hoped for effects on PCa, eating better is a good thing for our overall health.

Prato eating all those carbs, ice cream, cake, pastrami, and other junk may offer us a null hypothesis nono
Posted 2/24/2018 7:33 PM (GMT 0)

garyi said...
Do you guys ever wonder if these difficult diets just artificially suppress PSA, proving nothing about potential BCR, long term PCa avoidance, and quality of life?

I realize many of us have to DO something to feel like we may be controlling the beast....but can we, really?

Prato, I so want your PSA to stay stable, or come down. Both for your emotional/physical health, and so we can then all eat like you, without guilt or recriminations. smilewinkgrin

I was thinking about that, that maybe I should keep eating garbage, because if I did and my PSA came down in April, I could keep eating cr@p. But then I'd have a heart attack so it doesn't matter.
Posted 2/24/2018 8:59 PM (GMT 0)

Pratoman said...

I was thinking about that, that maybe I should keep eating garbage, because if I did and my PSA came down in April, I could keep eating cr@p. But then I'd have a heart attack so it doesn't matter.

Sure it matters....a gentle fading off from a heart attack at ~92 vs. a miserable slow death from prostate cancer at ~72 cool
Posted 2/24/2018 9:57 PM (GMT 0)
I am also following cashless diet for the last 3 months. I think it’s a great diet. I made a mistake by changing labs for the psa. Right now, my psa is .17
Before the diet it was.16 then .20 then .17
I am placing a lot of hope on this diet. I think it’s a great diet for any disease. I will keep you guys posted in a month from now or so with the results
Posted 2/24/2018 9:58 PM (GMT 0)
Well though I have been pointing to Ornish as an example with at least some evidence beyond PSA, and admiring Cashless and Wilderness' apparent accomplishments, after a fast since supper last night, I am REALLY looking forward to that steak I am going to grill in a little while, along with a large salad. That may not live up to the standards we are seeing in this thread, nor to Ornish's, but it sure is going to taste good. Everything tastes wonderful after a fast. And, if I would just stick with the steak and salad, it would probably not spike my insulin much, especially following that fast. But, I will probably also have a baked potato, some wine and horror or horrors, even a dessert! smhair

But, it sure is gong to taste good! At least my weight keeps inching downward with this intermittent fasting approach, despite the feasting I do when I come off the fast. I really hope I am not driven to having to put Cashless' diet to the test, but if I do it won't be surprising. It is impressive that it seems to have worked for both of them. I suggest one more of you guys volunteer to put it to the test, for a study of 3.
Posted 2/24/2018 10:04 PM (GMT 0)
Billy bob,
I am following the diet inch by inch including exercise for 40 minutes( 2 Miles ) every single morning immediately after breakfast and a fast cup of coffee. I will stick to one lab going forward and forward the results. Thanks to chashless and everyone else interested in this.
Posted 2/24/2018 10:22 PM (GMT 0)
Hi Gary -

Can only speak for myself, but mine is not a "difficult diet". I enjoy great meals. I don't find myself thinking about things I'm not eating. Guess I'm just lucky that way.

And about masking PSA? Inflammation markers improved dramatically e.g. high-sensitivity CRP from 1.0 (prior to diet change) to 0.5 six months in, to 0.2 after 18 months. Cholesterol also: from 200 to 154 LDL from 118 to 83, HDL from 47 to 56. Triglycerides from 167 to 81.

I continue to eat big meals (crazy high metabolism) but lost 12 lbs very quickly to 23.7 BMI.

Would we say of a prescription medication, "I haven't taken that for 60 years, I don't think it will make a difference now." It's all biochemistry - the foods we eat no less than the drugs we take. Consider:

www.livescience.com said...
Red blood cells live for about four months, while white blood cells live on average more than a year. Skin cells live about two or three weeks. Colon cells have it rough: They die off after about four days. Sperm cells have a life span of only about three days, while brain cells typically last an entire lifetime

I believe new cells are built from what we eat, drink, breath & with 50 to 75 trillion in our bodies we're making a really big number every day.
Posted 2/24/2018 10:40 PM (GMT 0)
Fascinating Wilderness....thanks!

I admire your discipline, envy your knowledge, and trust you'll will continue to do marvelously. Lots of us are watching the success you and Cashless are having.

For me, it's just another joy snuffed out by prostate cancer....eating. sad
Posted 2/24/2018 10:51 PM (GMT 0)

AK123 said...
including exercise for 40 minutes( 2 Miles ) every single morning


What I do too. I believe that you underestimate the beneficial effects of physical activity on cancer progression. Maybe exercise has potential do more than diet change?
This Swedish study is one of many studies indicating beneficial effects of physical activity for men with prostate cancer.
Physical Activity and Survival among Men Diagnosed with Prostate Cancer
If we don't want to change diet and still fight progression we can exercise.
Posted 2/24/2018 11:45 PM (GMT 0)
Gemline,
I have no proof but I do feel the same way about exercise too. I think it makes a big difference and like you said, may be even more than the diet itself. I wish we can increase it to 3 Miles like chashless does but I am not a fan of walking but I am trying smile.
Thank you wilderness for answering my questions, I missed it before and just read it now. The thing I miss about my diet is the fruit, cashless does not eat much of it so I am trying to follow his diet. So, it took you more than a year to see changes in the psa after you started the diet, wilderness? If I am reading this correctly.
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