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4 days on Taxotere; no CRASH; am I 'home free?'

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Posted 6/29/2018 4:05 PM (GMT 0)
Hi,

I had my 1st infusion of Taxotere on Monday. It has now been almost exactly 4 days (96 hours) since...

I have no effects, no CRASH, no anything ((Yes, I know: knock on wood...) Can I expect not to get a crash from this infusion?

I'm just a bi concerned about allergic reaction next time around, since I do have some allergies, but regarding the CRASH, if I don't get one this infusion, can I hope realistically not to experience it?

I'm 56, in pretty good health, and relatively fit. I'm eating plant-based diet. I had a push of prednisone as well as Lupron injection and Doce infusion. I'm taking 5mg prednisone 2X / day...

I'm scheduled to work 10 hours (this evening) tonight, and 12 hours tomorrow, so I'm hopeful at this point...

Oh, and my hair loss is scheduled for 10-14 days out, right? followed closely by my libido?
Posted 6/29/2018 5:29 PM (GMT 0)
Great news on not getting a chemo crash. They can be debilitating. Wishing you continued success with no crashes.
Posted 6/29/2018 6:45 PM (GMT 0)

Hello ~

It seems most of us in the CHEMO CLUB have, indeed, experienced some form of CHEMO CRASH.

Mine was tolerable, but definitely noticeable ---

In my case, since I work full-time, my oncologist intentionally scheduled my infusion for late Wednesday afternoon. He predicted, correctly, that the crash would then hit during the weekend, when I would have some time to lay low, rest, and relax.

Each fellow's story is different ...

But, just to be cautionary ... I will admit that when my "crash" would hit, it seemed to hit suddenly. I remember times I would get up Saturday morning, after a Wednesday afternoon infusion, and would feel like I was sailing along ... and then, Saturday afternoon, the crash would DEFINITELY hit --- and that's a time when you need to stay close to home and make good friends with your favorite recliner or couch.

Just stay vigilant --- you might be on the lucky side of things, and I hope that's the case. Just keep drinking water this weekend, no matter what, because that does help remove the toxins from the chemo infusion and helps you rebound.

Every fellow here in the CHEMO CLUB will agree and say, "DON'T FORGET TO DRINK THE WATER, WHATEVER YOU DO!"

I also drank some cold tea and juice, along the way, too --- but I focused on healthy hydration, throughout the day, and water became the "magic elixir" that has helped me and other friends of mine who are going through chemotherapy treatments.

Keep us posted in the next few days, and hoping your side effects are few!

CYCLONE - Iowa State University
Posted 6/29/2018 9:29 PM (GMT 0)
Thanks guys!! I'll be vigilant, and hydrated...

(and I'll update...)

Paul
Posted 6/30/2018 1:39 PM (GMT 0)
My crash comes in the third to fifth day after, and is unpredictable. I have come to the conclusion, based on no medical foundation, that the crash is longer now (I am on session #17). Yes, for those who freak out at that number, my treatment is to a degree experimental, and is being supervised by the director of an NIH partner cancer center. Chemo brain takes the proper terminology from me.

What is the difference? Now they are back to using the saline bags that I had for the first two sessions, but vanished for months after the hurricane in Puerto Rico. When they had to mix things into syringes with very limited saline, and the nurse had to do the infusion into my port line, the whole process is abbreviated down to about 70 minutes or less, as there is less fluid to push.

Now, we are back to the pharmacy mixing in the (much larger volume) bags, so there is a lot more fluid to drip. The process is back to the 90-110 minutes, and the crash is back to day three/four, and longer, sometimes three days. Conversation with my doc's PA speculates that the longer infusion time lets the meds absorb more slowly, and be more diffused. The longer crash is likely because I am getting weaker with the continuing cycles.

I will say you are fortunate if you get a light crash. Mine usually peaks in about four hours curled up on towels on the bathroom floor, waiting for the inevitable next round. Then I get to do laundry for at least a day.
Posted 6/30/2018 4:33 PM (GMT 0)
Don't celebrate just yet. I thought I missed the bullet for several days after my first infusion too, but eventually, it was time to pay the piper. The good news is that the first infusion "crash" for me was rather mild (basically slept for most of two days). Hopefully, you might escape the crash but incase you don't, do make sure to take ISU-Cyclone's advice and if interested, see my diary of my chemo treatment here: /www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=35&m=3987553&g=4010036#m4010036

- Bill
Posted 6/30/2018 9:27 PM (GMT 0)

Hello NotKidneyStones ~

I think all of us in the CHEMO CLUB have the collective experience that might be described as "You Can Run, But You Can't Hide" --- in terms of the chemo crash.

There is a variance in side effects --- but it seems every "chemo comrade" I know has experienced the "crash" to some degree ---

So --- you are wise to stay vigilant --- I did find that my crash usually followed the same pattern, as far as onset, after each infusion --- so, as time went on, I knew when I needed to stay close to home, so I could rest a bit on the couch. It can hit somewhat suddenly, almost out of the blue.

You have heard from our brother SCHOOLPSYCH, and he has put together an excellent, insightful journal of his experiences with chemotherapy. I recommend the link he posted for you --- it really details his whole first-hand experience, which is so invaluable.

Let us know how you are faring! We're all in this TOGETHER!

CYCLONE ~ Iowa State University
Posted 6/30/2018 10:01 PM (GMT 0)
Your body will tolerate that first dose without too much trouble..But as time goes on and the treatments start to add up, the effect will become more pronounced..I take a couple of Dexamethasone the day before, the day of and the day after the infusion to suppress any allergic reaction. Along with a predisone too..My "crash" comes on about 72 hours after the infusion and lasts for 3 days, slowly fading away..

I meet with my Onco before every infusion and we go over my latest blood-work taken 2 days earlier..So far, my blood counts have been holding up but so has my PSA...But at least the rapid rise has stopped and it has gone down a little..
Posted 7/1/2018 2:46 AM (GMT 0)
My 1st round I had 2 days extreme fatigue, 5 days of chemo. Hair lost started about 10 days. The second cycle witch I just finished 13 days ago has been really rough. The fatigue hit with a vengeance on day three with lightheadedness extremely low bp, no appetite. This continued for 4 days and we went back to onc. Fluids IV and stereoids as he had stopped them to due increase in bs. They also did labs which showed my wbc were wiped out so I was given neulsata. He said I woulld feel better in a day. Next day fever up to 102.6 with tyl. Labs at hosp should rebounding wbc and no inf. The next day fever continues, weakness,fatigue, lightheaded. More labs,chest X-ray, done at onc. no spesis. But he felt l might have bronchial inf so gave me antibiotic inj and 5 days oral meds. Meds are gone starting low grade temp, fatigue weakness and lightheaded has not left. I also have a really high heartbeat with my low bp. I sure hope the cycles don’t get worse each time cause I don’t think I can make it though it if it gets much worse.
Posted 7/2/2018 2:58 PM (GMT 0)
No Crash so far... 1 week in... can't wait for the next infusion (Tongue firmly planted in cheek) to see if my good fortune continues.

Paul
Posted 7/2/2018 4:08 PM (GMT 0)
I started taking a iron supplement to support RBC..WBC is still okay.
Posted 7/3/2018 5:21 PM (GMT 0)
Paul,
The brothers who've responded here (Fairwind, Cyclone, Schoolpsych, and our moderator) all helped me through my Taxotere journey, completed six weeks ago. Check out the journal links provided and go through the previous posts, especially of those who've responded here. Also, please provide your basic info in your signature block to give us an idea of how you might compare to our conditions/experiences so suggestions and comments are more targeted to your situation.
As for working "full time" through Taxotere, I did it, as did schoolpsych. We both did Wednesday infusions so we could work Thursday & Friday of that week before the weekend crash. In #1 & #2 I had loads of fevers, mostly at night. Crashes were manageable, but in #3-#6, I was working the Thursday and Friday morning after treatment (thanks to dexamethasone -5 day before, 5 day after). The next Monday and Tuesday I was unable to work, even from home. With your Monday infusions, I'd be very careful about assuming you could be working that Wednesday through Friday, especially in the later rounds. I'd also consider doing Wednesday infusions to put your worst days on the weekends (unless you work weekends). Are you getting 4 or 6 Taxotere treatments?
Hang in there. I just had another C-11 Acetate scan yesterday in Phoenix which confirmed the Lupron/Casodex/Taxotere regimen has worked for me. I've eradicated 90% of PC spots (in bone/lymph) and PSA has gone from 58 to 1.1. Best of luck!
Posted 7/3/2018 6:43 PM (GMT 0)
Just met w Onc. WBC is a little low, so I will get NEULASTA... other test results aren't in yet. I'm hopeful for continued PSA Drop.

Today is day 8 after infusion w/ no CRASH... next infusion sched. for 7/17. My schedule is relatively flexible, with nominal NS days at work of Monday/Tuesday. I may move the infusion to Friday, after the July one...

I find the mix of formats for peoples history a bit confusing, but I basically Stole yours, Steve55777. The layout makes sense AND we have similar cases. Does your family have a history of Breast Cancer, and did you blow off some blood tests? More similarities, if so...

You guys prolly have an idea how vital this is already, but I want to say a big thanks for providing this support. My history is, I don't rely on others. I just don't. Guess what... I do now !

BTW, due to BCA in family, I had Genetic testing done... results on that in 2-3 weeks...
Posted 7/3/2018 6:56 PM (GMT 0)

NOTkidneystones said...
J
I find the mix of formats for peoples history a bit confusing, ...

The sig has no real format, except that it is limited to 400 characters, including spaces, carriage returns, the whole batch. So as we develop more history, we have to get really compact and abbreviate to the extreme, and sometimes just dump what isn't critical info.

I suggest that you keep a copy of your sig in a text editor which can provide a character count, edit there, and then paste into your profile.

If you edit directly in the profile, and go even one character over the limit, then save, magic happens. It all disappears, never to be recovered.
Posted 7/3/2018 7:55 PM (GMT 0)

Hello NotKidneyStones ~

You've gotten a wide range of responses ---

Sounds like things are "so far, so good" after your first infusion ---

I, too, received a NEULASTA shot after each infusion, which was needed to help restore my immune system each time, so I could stay on the infusion regimen, which was every three weeks.

At least you won't be caught by surprise if the CHEMO CRASH comes "knocking on your door" a few days after an infusion ---

We're here to support you, all the way through!

CYCLONE ~ Iowa State University
Posted 7/3/2018 8:31 PM (GMT 0)
No history of cancer in my family -- it's been waiting patiently for me! As for the Neulasta, I began with that day after #1, but when fevers settled in, my doc thought it might be from Neulasta, so I went to daily Neupogen shots following Taxotere #2-6. I wasn't happy about five straight days of DR visits after the Taxotere infusions, but that's what I had to do to stay in safe WBC territory. Once, after Taxotere #2, WBC got under 1 when I had a fever that hit 101, and I was admitted to the hospital for 3 days of antibiotics, fluids and Neupogen shots as a precaution.
Also of note, I have just received some good news today... I had 10-12 lymph/bone mets after doing a C-11 Acetate scan at Phoenix Molecular Imaging (PMI) on 11/8/17. At that time, I'd been on Casodex for 6 weeks and my PSA had come down (from 58) to 21.6 on the day of that scan. PSA went up to 30.44 on 12/8 when I got Lupron shot #1. Also started xGeva to help bones. (Get xGeva since you have bone mets). Still on monthly Lupron & xGeva today. Taxotere completed 5/23/18 when PSA was 2.3. PSA on 6/4 was 1.1. Then yesterday, we did a follow-up scan at PMI and found that we've eradicated at least 90% of the PC, and PSA is now 0.70! The only material spot left is on hip bone, and will be consulting with my team of docs to see if radiation on that area makes sense. We'll see.
So keep the faith. Keep hydrated (even when all water tastes like it's coming from a muddy pond), and keep checking PSA along the journey. In rare cases, some chemo doesn't work on the PC, so you need to know that ASAP so you can move to another treatment. Keep in touch!
Posted 7/4/2018 12:39 PM (GMT 0)
@Steve55777 Re:diet what do you eat that is not vegan? (the 2%) And did you crash change your diet? If you'd prefer, feel free to email me.
Posted 7/4/2018 2:50 PM (GMT 0)
Gobucks,
The non vegan during crashes was more like 5%. But that was only real cheese and things that contained eggs (pasta bread etc). Before my DX with PC I had a very good diet except I ate chicken fish and turkey for my meat. Otherwise I’ve been vegetarian (wife is strict veg) at home all the time. Also now lots of juicing, wheat grass carrots apples broccoli etc. no alc since DX.
Posted 7/10/2018 5:11 AM (GMT 0)
Thanks again for all the help n support... I have 2 weeks down and Infusion #2 is 1 week away... We'll do blood work Monday, n infusion Tuesday
Posted 7/10/2018 1:33 PM (GMT 0)
Good luck with round two NOTkidneystones!

On the topic of diet that steve55777 and GoBucks brought up. I too started a pretty strict diet soon after being diagnosed in 2016. I found that during chemotherapy, my tastes for food changed. I don't mean in the manner that food tasted differently but that I found myself being turned off by certain foods I typically ate before and actually craving some foods I rarely or never ate (pulled pork, hamburgers, mac and cheese, ice cream). So, I definately veered from my stricter vegan-type diet during chemotherapy but it made me feel better (at least pychologically) and during chemotherapy, I don't think there is any shame in giving yourself some leeway. Now that chemotherapy is in the rearview mirror, I'm back on track with my diet.
Posted 7/12/2018 4:58 PM (GMT 0)
So my sense of TASTE is returning... must be almost time for another dose... LOL
Posted 7/14/2018 7:33 PM (GMT 0)

Hello!

My oncologist and the chemotherapy infusion nurses ALWAYS handed me a cup full of ice chips, to chew on during each chemotherapy infusion ---

The idea is that chewing on the ice chips during the infusion can potentially HELP keep taste buds intact.

In my case, I didn't lose any sense of taste --- chewing on the ice chips was no big deal, and I figured, "No harm, no foul," in doing so.

Can't hurt --- might help! Just a thought to share!

CYCLONE - Iowa State University
Posted 7/18/2018 4:44 AM (GMT 0)
Hi... Today was infusion #2 day... it went great, although there were no ice chips. They did have "ice cubes", so I chewed those. They weren't truly cube shaped, but the more tub-bottom shapes. Anyhow, this is the only one, out of 5 branches that doesn't have ice in chips...

So Monday 6/25 was infusion #1: lost most sense of taste pretty quickly, after chewing ice chips at smaller branch site. NOTE: Option of chilling hands n feet was Not Offered, nor supported by this group.

No other noteworthy side effects following Shot #1. Sense of taste slowly returned during following 3 weeks. I Have Not 'lost my hair', but I'm quite bald to begin with. I have noticed that my (normally VERY thick) beard is not coming in. I'm shaving every other day, basically.

I may have lost a bit of sensation in my right hand index finger-tip, but it's already seen some degradation of sensation there due to impingement in spine for that nerve, so I'm not sure. If it was, it degraded from about 15% loss to about 20% loss- very minor.

Here's hoping for continued side-effect free experiences..

My PSA, measured Monday, dropped to 28, while my genetic testing came back with a big Negative- good news for my kids!!!

Paul

Post Edited (NOTkidneystones) : 7/18/2018 8:40:02 AM (GMT-6)

Posted 7/22/2018 2:26 AM (GMT 0)
Hi, I am on day 4 now, following infusion #2. I haven't had a CRASH, but I've had a couple of days of SAGGING energy. I thought I was crashing on day 2, but it was really the diet I'm following. I went to Moes, and got a Chicken Bowl (double beans, no rice, 1st meat in about a week), and felt much better...

My sense of taste is less than normal, my brain gets tired, and my energy is low, but I did walk the puppy 2 miles this AM... I'm scheduled off from work for these 3 days.

Has anyone tried a fast, or near-fast (500 calories/ day * 3 days) for the day preceding the infusion, of the infusion, and after the infusion? Dr Longo has apparently written about the effect that this practice has of lessening side effects.
Posted 7/22/2018 11:38 AM (GMT 0)
Notkidneystones

I went through chemo without too many issues. Loss of taste was one, I took a nausea pill a day prior on the day and day after chemo. I did put my hands in the ice gloves that where offered. I got hit the hardest when I was done chemo. I just wanted to sleep. I would get up in the morning have a coffee, go back to bed get up around noon let the dog out, and get up for dinner time then back to bed. I did this for awhile before I was able to get going again. So I paid the piper at the end of chemo.

Best of luck to you!
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