Bankrupted......

Here is a question that is seldom discussed...How many people here have been bankrupted or pushed close to bankruptcy by the cost of treating your cancer ? Those people under 65 years old with no medical insurance or very high deductible medical insurance are at high risk here but even with Medicare or Medicaid as a last resort, medical treatment and drug costs can be staggering. Has anyone gone without treatment or been forced to accept a lower cost treatment because the money was just not there? Has anyone been forced to take out a second mortgage on their home to pay for medical treatment? People don't like talking about this stuff but it can have just as big an impact on them and their families as the cancer itself..

Fairwind,

We are very fortunate in that we have good insurance, as well as an additional policy to cover a portion of the high deductible. Right now, Randy is in a clinical trial that covers most of the cost for his care. However, as retirement age looms, and the clinical trial ends, we worry about how we will cover the costs of his care. We are especially worried about him needing one of the high cost drugs, such as enzalutamide. Randy would like to retire at 62, but my insurance is not nearly as comprehensive as his, and we don't know how we'd manage until he could go on Medicare. All of our best laid plans are out the window. And we are the lucky ones. We have met several people at the clinic that have had to change of forego certain treatments due to a lack of resources. It's really disheartening.

What you also have to understand is that many of these are filed by people that are not well off to begin with. A person with a $25,000 uninsured charge and some credit cards but doesn't own a house or other meaningful assets presents a quick and easy discharge without really losing anything, except probably a bad credit rating in the process.

The real question is how many of these bankruptcies are truly life changing where people lose a home or retirement savings in the process. Generally these are not the people filing for bankruptcy due to medical bills.

This is not meant to lessen the importance, rather to keep it in perspective. The mere report that 2 million filed bankruptcy and that many of these have medical bills doesn't tell us much. The assets, liabilities and the amount of the medical bill would tell us much more.

I just looked for statistics and a report from The National Bankruptcy Forum reports that bankruptcies continue to fall and that in 2017 there were fewer then 800,000 filed in the United States. This is less than half the amount reported by the by the information from 81GyGuy. Also according to the official website www.uscourts.gov, the most non-business filings in any one year was 1,538,033 in 2010. In 2017 it was 767,721. So the report shown by 81GyGuy appears greatly overstated and not a true representation of what has actually been happening.

Regardless, it is very unfortunate when medical expenses cause financial hardship, but this is certainly nothing new. When we had our first child our insurance paid $200 for maternity. The charge was going to be much more and we were a young couple with no real financial resources. The hospital said we would get a plan for $25 per month and that they never had repossessed any children.

A timely question for several of us that are approaching the time for the expensive drugs to begin. I have no idea how I would pay for a drug like Zytiga so the question for me is am I willing to liquidate what we have worked so hard for over many years and spend my wife"s future monetary needs in order to live a few more months on this earth? The resounding answer is no. What will I do? I do not know but it will NOT include bankruptcy or leaving her broke. If a reasonable way to to get them is there down the road then I will take them, otherwise put me in the "do without" category.
Woody

Excellent thread!
I had a major spinal injury 17 months ago, leaving me totally disabled.
I spent 9 days in the hospital and 6 weeks in an acute rehab center.
The bills were over a million bucks, as I recall. I actually don't remember the exact amount because my Medicare Advantage insurance had a maximum. I think my cost was under $500.

Without such coverage, I would be in DEEP you-know-what.

I will stop here, before I get political.

Mel

Not many folks are going to come on a public forum & say "yeah, I filed bankruptcy" or "I need to file". A lot of my clients have had astounding medical bills. But for someone on a fixed income it doesn't take much to put you under.
Here is a recent article on senior bankruptcies.

https://www.businessinsider.com/older-americans-are-filing-for-bankruptcy-during-retirement-2018-8

I have been a practicing bankruptcy attorney since way back in the last century. If anyone needs to talk about this subject privately I am available for free. Any talk is covered by the attorney client privilege. Just don't blab out that you are planning to kill Prato or anyone else. That's not covered.

Jim

I am fortunate to have had minimal out of pocket costs for past and future treatments. I’m going on Zytiga in September, which costs about $300 per day, over $100,000 per year. If it works for me for 5 or 10 years, well that’s A LOT of money. I sometimes wonder if I, or anyone else, is deserving of that triage. I’m not an insurance or economics expert, but health care costs don’t seem sustainable. I feel a reckoning is coming, with tough decisions for society to consider. Otherwise the country may be filing for bankruptcy.

Hello all,

It's been awhile since I have posted but I have to reply to this post.

My husband is 60 and has fought this battle since 2011 and although he has great medical insurance through his employer,he is working primarily for the insurance. There may come a time where he becomes permanently disabled.

He won't be covered by medicare unless or until he reaches the age of 65-66.

There is a 2 year waiting period if he has to take medicare before the age of 65-66, due to becoming disabled.

Yes we can pay into Cobra, however that is cost prohibitive.

Without being political, we who have worked and paid into the system,and saved for retirement, are now faced with this dilemma.

(deleted - sorry but no political discussion allowed)


Perhaps someone knows of something I may be missing.

Thank you for this post.

Post Edited By Moderator (Pratoman) : 8/14/2018 3:41:18 PM (GMT-6)

BOOGEE said...

From Pratoman: I am deleting this quote as I did the original post 3 hours ago, as political discussions aren’t permitted

...

Perhaps someone knows of something I may be missing.
.

I can help clarify...at least with part of what you said.

*Social Security (an entitlement program where eligibility is based on prior contributions; also includes Medicare, unemployment insurance, and workers comp) and the “welfare system” (government subsidies to the poor) are completely different
*”Welfare” is most commonly referring to TANF, Temporary Assistance for Needy Families program. President Clinton signed an Act in 1996 restricting immigrants from public benefits during their first five years as a qualified alien (although the majority if authorized immigrants have been here for more than five years).
*Subsidized school meals are the most widely used “welfare” program by immigrant families.
* 51% of immigrant-headed households reported (census) having used at least one welfare program; compared to 30% of native-born households. Compared to native-born individuals, immigrants earn less, have higher unemployment and higher poverty levels.

Hope this helps fill in missing info.

Post Edited By Moderator (Pratoman) : 8/14/2018 5:16:40 PM (GMT-6)

Wow...When I started this thread, I had no idea I would get this kind of response..I knew it was a sensitive subject and many people simply don't like to talk about it, but it seems many of us must work very hard to keep our heads above water when cancer treatment costs start piling up...

I have been a business owner for the last 20 years. Until I went on Medicare two years ago, the insurance premium I paid was $18,000 per year and a $7,000 deductible. Adding dental and vision and we knew that we had at least $25,000-$30,000 per year to cover expenses. Financial fact of life.

During that time my wife had breast cancer for the second time and I had PCa, and a knee surgery and a eye surgery and a hernia repair. Plus I get a monthly eye injection that costs about $3,000 each month.

Amazing how much our health care costs.

Now on Medicare we get some premium relief, but we have paid more 3% of our lifetime earnings to get here. And I still have to pay Medicare tax since I continue to work. Not griping, because our medical care has been far better than anywhere else in the world. Just very expensive.

JNF said...
our medical care has been far better than anywhere else in the world. Just very expensive.

Not sure JNF is correct. According to
/www.internationalinsurance.com/news/ranking-top-eleven-healthcare-systems-country.php
US is ranked last of 11 Countries!

In equity (what this thread is about I believe) Sweden ranks #1 in 2011 and #3 2017.

JNF is correct about cost: health cost per capita and year in US $8,508 vs. Sweden $3,905 (2011)


World Health Organization Ranking of the World’s 100 Best Health Systems put US at place 37.

I was fortunate when my 35 yr+ career ended 2 years ago (at 58) that I was eligible for retiree medical insurance to keep me going until Medicare kicks in.

That being said--and this is difficult to do without getting political--part of the answer does lie with us, the voting citizens. In a way, we have to decide what we are willing to do without personally in order to improve the system for everyone.

It was summed up nicely in a article I remember reading in the early 90's, where the writer (I don't remember who), pointed out that we want 3 things from the system--unfortunately we can only get 2 out of 3. Any 2 are possible, but the third will not fit. The 3 things are:

1. The latest and greatest technologies and advancements (in our case, think Proton beam RT)
2. Low cost to whomever is picking up the tab (government/insurer/us as individuals)
3. Easy access/short waits/no waits/available everywhere

Finding the balance point is the answer. And, in the US, we have the added insanity of how the market and economics actually work. From a pure economic standpoint, how can any entity stay in business for long when they write off anywhere from 30%-75% of their total billings? Or are the list prices simply numbers that have no reflection on any real cost to the provider?