John McCain did not 'lose' his battle with glioblastoma — because cancer is not a war

“why is the battle metaphor not used for heart disease? Congestive heart failure, especially, is often a long drawn-out affair - it would seem to be amenable to the war metaphor, yet it is almost never used -- why?”

Cancer cells represent the soldiers of the enemy. Many things we attempt to do with cancer cells we do in traditional war. We “kill” cancer cells. We use knives to cut cancer out. We “shoot” them down with radiation (the big guns). We poison cancer with chemo like biological weapons. We use smart “bombs” to “search and destroy”. We use our immune system to make cancer “die”.

Jerry-

I understand the similarities, and don't question them. I do question the morality - the rightness or wrongness - of applying the war metaphor. As PDA pointed out, the war metaphor was applied to polio by the last generation, and it had none of those characteristics you mention. It was eventually prevented by vaccines -- not killed in battle.

I see that politics are creeping in here.

None of that. Please remove the references, or I will.

I respect all cancer patient’s view on their own cancer. They can use any metaphor they like to get them through the day.

John T said...
Allen,
It's just a metaphor and does not degrade someone for losing or makes a survivor into some sort of a hero.
You have a personal peeve about the war metaphor, and I have a personal peeve about " cancer survivor".

Cancer survivor annoys me too, as do military allusions to winning or losing. Maybe I'm just easilyy annoyed. But as others have pointed out we all have to deal with our own disease. There are many paths up the mountain.
Jim

John T-

As I said it's a moral issue. Calling someone a loser disparages them and their illness.

Why do you believe that cancer has a bigger "fear factor" than heart disease? It is obviously not due to its lethality, since heart disease is a bigger killer than cancer. I think it is because of the stories we tell ourselves about the diseases.

Jerry-

I take issue with it because it is destructive. Just because a patient parrots the meme doesn't make it any the less destructive. I no more consider myself a winner because I am cured than I consider someone a loser when he or she dies of cancer or any other illness. I know I was lucky.

PDA-

Public servants (military, police, firemen, sandbaggers) do do battle. It doesn't harm them to say they do. Battle metaphors turn us into winners and losers. Researchers do research. Doctors administer treatments. Patients benefit or not from the treatments they chose, much of it as pure chance (probabilities do not predict for the individual). People with a disease do what it takes to get over or through their illness. There is no need to use metaphor about illness at all. BTW- Susan Sontag wrote an essay when she had cancer called Illness as Metaphor where she decries the language of blaming about illness - she points out how wrapping illness in metaphor silences, shames, and discourages patients.

Jerry L. said...
I respect all cancer patient’s view on their own cancer. They can use any metaphor they like to get them through the day.

Bingo.

This thread makes me wanna cry. How is it...that anyone can come in here and attack how people use the term "Battling Cancer" as people who are using language that hurts others? It's one thing to share experiences, data, information, and different treatment modalities. It's even understandable that insurance questions....how best to deal with those issues can come up from time to time. That's information sharing. But to come in here and accuse people who check in from time to time to say....

"Hey...I haven't been here in 8 years. Just wanted to let people know that this cancer can be beatto give you hope" is somehow "destructive" is ...well...I can think of alot of words to describe that.


Beat cancer *don't use.....implies winning/losing
Won the battle *don't use...implies winning/losing/
Won my war against cancer *don't use...implies winning/losing


The list is endless in regards to words to describe winnning and losing.....which....forgive me....is a "no-no" to use.....I meant......"Cured" lol

What the heck is this? I maintain it does as much harm as good to tell people that the these commonly accepted ways of describing sickness does as much harm as good.

And I"ll also throw this in....no way is this thread not politcal. No way. I could argue why. But it's not worth it.

IT-

How we tell our stories changes the way we think of ourselves and others. I was not in a battle. I had a disease, I researched it, met with doctors, and found a way to cure it. My parents were not so lucky. When we wrap a disease in metaphor, it becomes no longer just a disease.

Metaphors can be destructive. I remember when some said that HIV was God's judgment. Tuberculosis/consumption was considered a disease of repressed passion.

My parents did not fight a battle and lose it. They were not bad soldiers. They were just people who had a disease that killed them. There is no need to think of someone who dies of cancer as a loser, as if they had a character flaw. That's why it is destructive to think that way, and talk that way.

TA

I think it was wrong of you to even start this thread. In an indirect way, it is a Rule 3 violation, as it has brought out conflict, and therefore disrespect, for how other members consider and interpret their treatment and disease paths.

As a Mod, I will be locking this with this post.

As a member, I am fighting a battle of epic proportions. I am killing parts of my body to save others for a few more months. I will not survive this battle, but I will fight to the last day.

As an old DI once told me - "That which doesn't kill you does not make it stronger. It just comes back to try again tomorrow."

If someone tells me he or she is battling cancer I will believe and accept that. But some patients go to the nearest doctor, follow his instructions without caring or understanding why they have to do that. They tell you they are taking pink pills now against cancer. I would not call that a battle against cancer.

George

So if a thread that is locked and then reopened...….should a thread that is started with the now ...er ah nevermind...it only creates angst....I think my other post on this thread gets to it... Its the times...much has been loosed in the last few weeks...its natural...to be affected by it...politics...and religion...they drive this forum...think about it...they absolutely are involved in every facet of everyones thought process on this site...newbies "innocently"...not so newbies get it...adapt with cleverness or sympathy but the ole time religion and politics...just keep on rolling along...Metophors...it would be quite bland without them...and yes they have been used since forever...right along with the drama due

FWIW, I thought I'd add parts of edited sidebar conversations that I had with one or more of the mods.As I don't have their permission, I'll only present my side.

Words are my business, and I know how framing can affect how we think about things. Once we take disease out of biology, we turn it into something it is not. It is much healthier to deal with things as they are (a lesson of Mindfulness). War metaphors create an unnecessary winner/loser distinction. Those who think they are fighting the good fight are setting themselves up to be a "loser" at some point.

What I (until now) held myself back from stating publicly (because of Godwin's Law) is that "blaming the victim" is often used with the Holocaust. Both my parents were the sole survivors in their families of the Holocaust, which perhaps makes me over-sensitive to this. Here's a conversation that takes place in Art Spiegelman's Maus II:

Shrink: So do you admire your father for surviving?

Art: Well...sure. I know there was a lot of LUCK involved, but he was amazingly present-minded and resourceful.

Shrink: Then you think it's admirable to survive. Does that mean you think it's NOT admirable to not survive?

Art: (whoosh) I think I see what you mean. It's as if life equals winning, so death equals losing.

Shrink: Yes, life always takes the side of life, and somehow the victims are blamed. But it wasn't the BEST people who survived, nor did the best people only live. It was RANDOM.

Randomness is intolerable. I, of all people (being a writer), understand the human need to shape the world with a narrative structure. I know that we tell ourselves stories in order to live, but in doing so, we give those stories power over us. There are always unintended consequences to falsifying the stories of our lives.

I request that no one use "survive", "battle", "fight" or "brave" when describing my experience with PC.

It is not how I experienced. It wasn't a battle, I wasn't brave and I didn't fight. I'm alive because it didn't kill me.

Use what metaphors you will for yourself, but don't paint me with a false brush.