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Post treatment sexuality-a contrary view

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Posted 4/10/2019 3:49 PM (GMT 0)
Hi Guys... I know the thread started as post RP, but being post Brachy, IMRT, ADT and I feel the same way all you RP guys do. Great thread. I finished primary treatment in June 2017 and it has been a long road of recovery for the same ED issues. I do know the zero libido feeling, and it took about 8 months for all that to wear away. I have a great wife who has been good with two way communication on this issue. When I got dx and we were at the oncologist, the doc said "he will not want sex for a long time" and my wife said "finally! a vacation". So in her mind, she got a long vacation from my higher level of drive, and we both knew we were not on the same track. So post treatment, my wife started her journey into menopause. So as we discussed our sex life the last couple of years, her wish was that she hopes my drive does not come back as strong. She said she can handle the few times a month for "practice" for me so that is what I live with. My T came back to a decent 444 on the last test but I would say my drive is not 100% back, but maybe that is partially mental in that I know my wife is not in the same position and I do have intermittent ED issues that can be frustrating at times. I use daily pills and up the dose on "get lucky" days that we plan on. By the way, post treatment, without ejaculate, orgasm is maybe a 6 or 7 on a 1 to 10 scale for me. So I think that too has tampered my drive. It is the new normal. I am honest with my wife and tell her that I am not 100% happy with my sex life while still in my early 50s, but that I am 100% happy with our lives together. It is just reality. Thanks for the topic. -JR
Posted 4/10/2019 4:50 PM (GMT 0)

Bob D said...
Franpro were your nerve bundles spared? Mine were and felt life down there 3 days post op with cath still in. They can take a year or more to completely heal if they were left in and not removed with the prostate.

Bob,

The nerves were spared. But again, I am just over 8 weeks post surgery and still recovering. I should not be frustrated, but I am.
Posted 4/10/2019 5:01 PM (GMT 0)
Jack,

I will respond in more detail later--I'm at work.

Don't keep asking the same question assuming that 'no response' means nothing more than not having time to respond.
Posted 4/10/2019 5:08 PM (GMT 0)
I dug up an article my wife sent me last year on my birthday titled "8 ways sex is better with an older, more mature man"

    1. They know more about the female body, and understand that there are endless ways a woman can get aroused.
    2. They’re not as preoccupied with the end result, and they generally enjoy the entirely of the act.
    3. They understand the importance of foreplay, it builds the connection.
    4. They don’t take it so seriously; hey, things go wrong or get silly...laugh it off.
    5. They’re more sexually curious; willing to consider many options.
    6. They speak up about what they like and don’t like; confidence keeps it interesting.
    7. They want to know what you like and don’t like, too; older partners have generally mastered the art of communication.
    8. They understand that good sex isn’t only about what happens in the bedroom, sexuality begins long before the bedroom and lasts long after.


That article was a boost for a man on his 59th birthday.
Posted 4/10/2019 5:11 PM (GMT 0)
Blackjack, yep, that could be us...if we were 25 years younger! smile
Posted 4/10/2019 11:41 PM (GMT 0)
I'm a wife but I'm still pre-menopausal, so my input doesn't fit the original post (also my husband had the triple play rather than RP).

Anyway, the disruption in intimacy has induced a lot of grief for me. Maybe I'll feel differently when menopause hits me (you guys are actually scaring me about that...I'm hoping I'm not in the midst of my last few "good years" here at age 46!) , but it makes me sad when I hear of women who are grateful for a waning libido in their men.

I really like Blackjack's posts. And I've always felt that the "jokes" that go around in movie locker rooms and the like that seem to imply that sex is always something men have to convince and cajole women into were annoyingly accepted as norm...maybe because I was always chasing my husband around the house at least as often as he chased me.

I miss normalcy. I really do. I'm dealing with it, as I know my husband is too, and we talk about it a lot and are both working hard to find a "new normal" that's acceptable for both of us, but it's been a big hit to me personally and to us as a couple (and I know it has been a huge personal hit to him too).
Posted 4/10/2019 11:55 PM (GMT 0)
Wife of pie... thanks for adding your thoughts on this. You hit the nail on the head, it affects both man and wife. Communication has been key for us but I still miss those good ol days too. That’s what makes this whole journey real sucky, our new normals. Take care. -JR
Posted 4/10/2019 11:57 PM (GMT 0)
I had my nerve bundles removed at the age of 67. I have complete ED. I tried both Viagra, Cialis and the pump none of them really worked. Trimix did work for me but my wife wasn't interested in sex anyway, she had sclerosis and sex was painful to her. For the last 3 years we have not had any sex. AT 77, sex is no longer a big deal for me and it certainly isn't for my wife. Right now, I'm grateful to be alive with my loving wife.
Posted 4/11/2019 12:04 AM (GMT 0)
One thing I didn't add before that I should have:

From my perspective as a wife (this is only mine...I'm sure everyone is different), it's easier to deal face some level of ED than it is to deal with the complete lack of sexual interest on the part of my spouse.

While he was on ADT, he was different. I mean, it may sound juvenile but even stupid things like grabbing me when I walked by or sneaking a peek in the shower - those little things were not happening when he was on ADT unless I told him it bothered me and he made a concerted effort (I have to hand it to him for being willing to hear that and try...but it wasn't natural anymore and that really kind of sucked).

So I think that FOR ME, the lack of desire on his part (due to the ADT) was more bothersome, and FOR HIM I think the impaired ability was more stressful. I don't know that if that makes sense, but I always felt like we could find things to do as long as we both wanted to. But if he didn't even want to, nobody felt good about any of it.

Pretty sure I've contributed way more than my allotted $0.02 so I'll stop now.
Posted 4/11/2019 12:48 AM (GMT 0)
Jack,

Back to your question about importance of sexuality in a relationship....

I'm going to say that it is highly individual (or dual, more accurately). IMO, a lot of it is going to be about what was happening "before" compared to what was or is happening "after" within a particular relationship. If the 'before' was at an equillibrium--whether that equillibrium was daily high passion or once or twice a month just because--then compare to 'after'.

If there is a dramatic change for the worse, then it will take longer and be much more frustrating to seek the new normal. If the before/after isn't dramatically different, IMO, then there will be a different situation.

I guess what I'm saying is that there is not one clear answer to the question. What I do know is that if our focus is on our ability to achieve an erection (or not), then we may be missing at least part of the point. I note the other thread about handling emasculation--and embracing the title of "Eunuch" as a potentially positive thing. That one I don't "get"--I've never done ADT, so I don't know what that is like.

What life has taught me, like it or not, is that acceptance of reality--embrace of it even--is the main key to mental health. My reality is different from some other man's. My marriage relationship is different from someone else's. And that is all I really want to say about it.

Are these things important to me? Yes, they are.
Posted 4/11/2019 4:08 AM (GMT 0)
I had RP at age 41. Wife was 38 at the time.
Posted 4/11/2019 11:29 AM (GMT 0)
Wife of Pie, don't ever feel like you have taken too much time or space here on the forum. We really enjoy the contributions you have made on this particular subject and all the other posts you have contributed to. I had to smile about the part where you like the hubby to give you a pinch as you walk by. I try to do this on occasions although with my wife well past menopause and me being on ADT for two years you know nutin ain't happening but it's still kinda fun maybe it's me being a pest especially if I do it in public. As Halbert has said your relationship which is unique to each of us changes after PC and it's treatments. For my wife and I we have grown more caring of each other and have learned to depend on each other more. First me with my PC and treatments then her having a heart attack and now with me basically being useless with my back surgery for 6 weeks or more we laugh about how we have become a team. I'll be honest it bothers me that if we get that darn snow they are talking about she will have to do the shoveling but I'll try to cook without burning the water and do the dishes!!! Was reading that report that someone posted about ADT which was a great report I printed it off, but it talked about how a person forgets names and words which I have found to be very true! My wife is always filling in words for me. What was that word? Sex mmmm wonder what that is? LOL Well it's my turn to quit jabbering! Everyone have a great day!!

Larry
Posted 4/11/2019 2:24 PM (GMT 0)

FranPro said...

Bob D said...
Franpro were your nerve bundles spared? Mine were and felt life down there 3 days post op with cath still in. They can take a year or more to completely heal if they were left in and not removed with the prostate.

Bob,

The nerves were spared. But again, I am just over 8 weeks post surgery and still recovering. I should not be frustrated, but I am.

That’s right. It will take time. The nerves go through a lot of trauma due to the procedure. Here is hoping you wake up one morning with a very happy surprise starting down there !!
Posted 4/11/2019 3:04 PM (GMT 0)
WifeofPie, very sorry you both are going through this. From my perspective you are both too young to have this problem. The night before my surgery I was sure it was the last time my wife and I could make love. We were just 58 years old then. I was devastated and I know she was also. Sex is not everything but it is an important part of marriage. She assured me if I had ED we would endure it together. I was lucky to recover from my operation thanks to a large part her love and care for me. It is important for all of us here that we have the support of a loving spouse as I know you are.
Posted 4/11/2019 4:27 PM (GMT 0)
WifeofPie, I know what you mean about not having a lack of interest. I never had that lack, and post menopause or not, I still don't have a lack of interest. My interest may have waned slightly, but it's something I miss. When guys post that their wives have no interest, in this context, I wonder if they really have no interest, or if they simply are trying not to put pressure on their men. After RP, Randy has total ED. That didn't end our sex life. (There's more than one way to skin a cat). But with ADT, his interest totally disappeared. He says he remembers that he likes sex, but now it's about as interesting as mowing grass. So now, we're dealing with lack of ability and lack of interest. He gets frustrated with himself and worries that it's going to make me feel less loved.
Posted 4/11/2019 4:55 PM (GMT 0)
If you will excuse a bit of over-simplification there seem to be two fundamental positions being expressed on this thread.
On the one hand we have those who point out that there is more to life than sexuality and there is more to sexuality than sexual activity and there are more forms of sexual activity than the sort of penetrative sex that requires an erection. Proponents of this argument suggest that wherever you wind up with each of this nested set of concerns you should focus on what remains and not obsess on what has been lost. They point out that there is almost always much for which to be grateful and they suggest that we try to be content.
The other camp suggests that while we will seldom get back what we had, sexually, before treatment, how much we get back will depend in part on the efforts we make to get it. They suggest that it is foolish to resign oneself to permanent diminishment before all avenues of rehabilitation have been tried. They are the Dylan Thomas school of sexual rehabilitation, refusing to go quiet into that good night, they rage, rage against the dying of the light. More prosaically they are into penile rehab, pills and pumps, injections if those don't work, and implants if things come to that.
I suggest that (except, perhaps for the "rage, rage" part) these two positions are not incompatible and both can be right. It is a false dichotomy. I am a strong proponent of both.
Posted 4/11/2019 5:04 PM (GMT 0)
Well said PeterDisAbelard.
Posted 4/11/2019 5:15 PM (GMT 0)
“But with ADT, his interest totally disappeared. He says he remembers that he likes sex, but now it's about as interesting as mowing grass. So now, we're dealing with lack of ability and lack of interest. He gets frustrated with himself and worries that it's going to make me feel less loved.“

Randy Joe,
I had a wide surgical cut, but TriMix saved the day. Then I eventually developed Peyronies. After that I started withdrawing out of embarrassment and frustration. I’m only a month into ADT and I know it will tamp down the last embers. My GF is still very good to go sexually and I know she’s frustrated. I also sense resentments for which I don’t blame her.

I think I closely share your husband’s concerns. I enjoy hugging and kissing and snuggling with my GF. I have never loved her more and I tell her so. I just hope she understands that, and can accept the new ways I show her.

It’s a tough tough thing, this disease is. I’m grateful for the survivability, but collateral treatment damage can be brutal for us and those closest to us.
Posted 4/11/2019 7:58 PM (GMT 0)
Peter DisAbelard that is so well expressed and I agree with you.

Good discussion everyone, thanks.
Posted 4/11/2019 8:35 PM (GMT 0)
Mattam, it has to be difficult with a less long term relationship. (I don't know, maybe you've been together longer than we have.) We had 30 years of a great life together to draw on before he was diagnosed. We tried pills (did nothing), and pumps, and Trimix (he found it painful), Bi-mix (didn't work)... At this point, we know he will be on some form of ADT from now on, so we're just grateful for what we had, acknowledging that lots of folks never get what we had and grateful for what we still have, acknowledging that lots of folks never get what we have now.

It can be frustrating, but no where near a stressful as the thought of NOT having Randy around. I'll bet your girlfriend feels the same way.
Posted 4/12/2019 10:53 AM (GMT 0)
PDA summed it up well, I think.

When I started this thread, my 'contrary view' was closely aligned with PDA's first viewpoint: that there is more to life than having penetrative sex. I fall in the group of men who have maintained the ability with minimal intervention (2.5 mg cialis daily) but who have a low level of frequency for various reasons. So, I gravitate towards that viewpoint by necessity.

There is a lot written and shared on this forum regarding the other viewpoint, with great energy and passion, and my goal was to have a conversation about giving space to the first.
Posted 4/12/2019 5:26 PM (GMT 0)
Peter DA: agree greatly with you and your post.
Posted 4/16/2019 11:33 PM (GMT 0)
I nominate WifeOfPie as ruler of the world
H
Posted 4/17/2019 12:51 AM (GMT 0)
Hero-
well, since I live in a house with 3 teenaged boys as well as my hubby, I'd settle for just being ruler of my own home rather than the entire world. You know, baby steps. But thanks for the nomination ;-)

Post Edited (WifeofPie) : 4/16/2019 7:00:03 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 4/17/2019 2:26 AM (GMT 0)
smile
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