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Posted 4/28/2019 7:55 PM (GMT 0)
Almost 65 years old.

I have had sharp radiation treatment 1 1/2 years ago for prostate cancer. So far the PSA looks good at 0.43

But I seem to have a case of chronic prostititis. Could have been radiation induced but the symptoms are similar to other men that just have prostititis. A friend of mine who has chronic prostititis but does not have PC says an herbal supplement (Doctors Best Comprehensive prostate formula) really helps him.

Do any post treatment members use a supplement that has the usual ingredients, Saw Palmetto, Stinging Nettle etc.???
And if so which would you recommend. This could be on a prostititis forum, but most of those with it have not have radiation treatment for prostate cancer.

Thanks for any info!
Posted 4/28/2019 9:41 PM (GMT 0)
I don't have any (new) reasons to use any of the supplements, but I would be a bit more cautious than the ordinary bear about using any of those that could have any impact on measured PSA.

Those of us who have been treated for PCa have a heightened awareness of our PSA levels and how they vary over time. Ratiation patients, especially, have to deal with the vagueness of random PSA variation along with the potential that there could be PSA increases due to recurrence over time. I would be very careful in choosing to do anything that could alter my normal PSA level, as it could mask clinically significant events that could take place.

Just my $.02 worth, though. I know prostatitis can be a real pain.
Posted 4/28/2019 11:54 PM (GMT 0)
I was recently experiencing worrisome urinary frequency and my doctor recommended saw palmetto. here's a thread I started and will update periodically. in short, I am amazed by the results. I use spring valley saw palmetto sold by Walmart. a bottle of 200, 450mg pills is under nine bucks. I take them as prescribed (two pills a day).

https://www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=35&m=4118998
Posted 4/29/2019 12:17 AM (GMT 0)
That's great F8 I may try it. If ones PSA was really moving up I don't think the saw palmetto would keep it down much...but I do understand the importance of correct PSA monitoring.

As far as the nutritional part of some supplements, selenium, zinc, lypocne....they are all good for prostate health....so it shouldn't only help keep the Cancer from recurring.
Posted 4/29/2019 12:21 AM (GMT 0)

fuzzboxman said...
That's great F8 I may try it. If ones PSA was really moving up I don't think the saw palmetto would keep it down much...but I do understand the importance of correct PSA monitoring.

As far as the nutritional part of some supplements, selenium, zinc, lypocne....they are all good for prostate health....so it shouldn't only help keep the Cancer from recurring.

of course ask your doctor. you can see my PSA hit nadir years ago and stayed there. good luck man!
Posted 4/29/2019 7:09 PM (GMT 0)
I'd be careful with the Zinc. Dr. Mark Moyad, an expert on supplements, calls it contra-indicative for PCa. I've also read a recent Italian study that links curcumin (aka turmeric) with artificially-heightened PSA levels, viz.

https://www.pagepressjournals.org/index.php/aiua/article/view/aiua.2018.2.107
Posted 4/29/2019 8:23 PM (GMT 0)
that's good to know.

There are some good things in these "formulas" but there are substances that post treatment would do more harm than good....or at least make tracking things confusing.

Does anyone know what "they" are saying about the compound ALA first it was good for PC then it was bad.
last I read its good. Cause I'm eating a lot of ground sprouted flax for digestion and nutrition.
Posted 4/29/2019 8:40 PM (GMT 0)
Studies done on saw palmetto show that it doesn't work. I'm surprised a doctor would recommend it. When I was in my 40's I took saw palmetto. Still pissed like a race horse. I wish you the best, my friend.
Posted 4/29/2019 9:04 PM (GMT 0)

duke48 said...
Studies done on saw palmetto show that it doesn't work.

That's not actually true. In fact, that's not at all the result one gets from "studies." One can "prove" a difference in results between the control sample and the trial sample; but failing to demonstrate a statistically significant difference doesn't prove that "it doesn't work."

In this case, saw palmetto basically "works" for some people at varying degrees, and not for everyone...which is typical for many interventions.
Posted 4/29/2019 9:23 PM (GMT 0)
I have decided to visit the "integrated medicine" specialist at MSKK
Dr. Shelly Latte-Naor, has anyone heard of her?

There seems to be a really interesting "specialist" out of MT Sainai in NY
Jillian L Capodice

I will try and see her too. At least these institutions recognize the possible benefits of certain natural substances or practices, like acupuncture, meditation etc.

anyone heard of these doctors?

People keep saying "ask your doctor" ?
For the most part the medical industry is not going to recommend natural products. They don't know much about them and they don't want to. There's no money in it.

After seeing these doctors I will report back. Hopefully with some useful, correct information.
Being Informed can never hurt.
Posted 4/29/2019 10:45 PM (GMT 0)

Buddy Blank said...
Watch out for supplements.

(Rule violation removed by moderator)

Post Edited By Moderator (Tudpock18) : 5/1/2019 6:33:03 AM (GMT-6)

Posted 4/30/2019 12:05 AM (GMT 0)
if you want herbal supplements - I could connect with some folks I know at this commune in Humbolt County ...
Posted 4/30/2019 12:10 AM (GMT 0)

InTheShop said...
...I could connect with some folks I know...


No...I'd say that you probably don’t know

MENE, MENE, TEKEL, UPHARSIN

Post Edited (Blackjack) : 4/29/2019 6:20:11 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 4/30/2019 1:10 AM (GMT 0)
Saw Palmetto seems to have some effectiveness for BPH for some men--it did for me pre-diagnosis. I had minor BPH...not significant enough for finasteride. However, it also masked my true PSA, at the time of diagnosis my Uro told me to double my measured PSA to get close to the true value--so the more or less normal 4 became a concerning 8.
Posted 4/30/2019 2:02 AM (GMT 0)

halbert said...
However, it also masked my true PSA, at the time of diagnosis my Uro told me to double my measured PSA to get close to the true value...


Good point for the guys here to keep in mind!
Posted 4/30/2019 2:13 AM (GMT 0)

2019Guy said...
I'd be careful with the Zinc. Dr. Mark Moyad, an expert on supplements, calls it contra-indicative for PCa. I've also read a recent Italian study that links curcumin (aka turmeric) with artificially-heightened PSA levels, viz.

https://www.pagepressjournals.org/index.php/aiua/article/view/aiua.2018.2.107

Interesting! But, "artificially" raise it, or lower it? And if lowered, is that due to improvments in the prostate and/or PC?
"At visit 1, PSA value was in mean 6.84 .................At visit 2, the prostate volume did not change. Total PSA was 4.65 ...............
Conclusions: Use of the Curcuma extract is able to lower the PSA value after a 30-day intake period. We are not able to state that the reduction of PSA after intake of this Curcuma extract may exclude a prostate cancer. We need further studies to evaluate that. ".
Posted 4/30/2019 3:28 AM (GMT 0)
Halbert/Blackjack,

I do agree with you that Saw Palmetto has benefit in some patients. However, you are wrong that it doubles PSA. More recent studies show small effect with most showing no effect on PSA. Finasteride will decrease PSA by 50% but not Saw Palmetto.

Paul
Posted 4/30/2019 5:19 AM (GMT 0)

duke48 said...
Studies done on saw palmetto show that it doesn't work. I'm surprised a doctor would recommend it. When I was in my 40's I took saw palmetto. Still pissed like a race horse. I wish you the best, my friend.

this sounds like "many people have said" ……………………………..
Posted 4/30/2019 9:46 AM (GMT 0)
PDL: I didn't say it...my doctor said it in 2016. And, it doesn't double it, it halves it (more or less). The larger point is that any supplement that seems to lower or stabilize PSA is something to use with care. Because, as we have said in here many times, PSA is NOT A CANCER TEST! Low PSA (particularly lowered by supplements or prescription drugs) does not mean one is cancer free--nor does high PSA mean you have cancer.

Pre diagnosis or treatment especially, maintaining a low PSA does not mean one is keeping cancer from developing. Post treatment PSA works for surgery patients because the only way to have PSA then is if there is cancer floating around. For radiation/chemo patients--well, it's indicative, but the consensus is one of caution because a PSA drop may or may not be indicative of cancer control.

This was the fundamental failure of the "PSA Era": that PSA was a definitive cancer test...and it is not. We really, really need to get away from promoting that idea in this forum.
Posted 4/30/2019 12:32 PM (GMT 0)
Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center (MSKCC) has an outstanding and informative set of Integrative Medicine web pages. The page on saw palmetto is HERE.

Key take-aways are that saw palmetto is not for treating prostate cancer, but can relieve many urinary symptoms commonly caused by BPH-enlarged prostates...and it's not at all uncommon for men to have both BPH and PC. BPH-enlarged prostates produce more PSA--it's a simple math problem: more volume of prostate, more PSA production. Saw palmetto naturally reduces the size of prostates (in some men) which relieves the urinary symptoms, and of course it also results in a reduction of the BPH-generated PSA...so what it's actually doing is removing or reducing the BPH-induced PSA contribution (perhaps best viewed as a PSA "correction"). As with ALL meds (prescribed or OTC), consult your physician, first, before consuming.

Saw palmetto also affects prostate radiation...but you will have already consulted with your physician(s) about your medication intake long before undergoing radiation therapy, so 'nuf said.
MENE, MENE, TEKEL, UPHARSIN

Post Edited (Blackjack) : 4/30/2019 7:54:48 AM (GMT-6)

Posted 4/30/2019 3:16 PM (GMT 0)

Buddy Blank deleted the post where he said...
...and watch out for guys pushing supplements on internet forums

Agreed. Every now and then we get someone goofy who pops-up here "pushing supplements"...but then they never last long. This site tends to be generally more rational about integrative medicines...the comments tend to be more like:
  • "My doctor mentioned this supplement; anyone got experience?" (fuzzboxman)
  • "I recently had a similar problem and my doctor also recommended that; here's my experience." (F8)
  • "Ask your doctor" (F8 again)
  • "Dr Mark Moyad has made these comments. And here's a link." (2019guy)
  • "I also can share info and personal experience from discussions with my doctor." (Halbert)
  • "Here's relevant info on how this supplement works in the body. Here's a great MSKCC link. Always discuss all meds with your doctor." (Blackjack)

That's nice work, team!

The only non-helpful post in this thread seems to be this (Rule 3 violation removed by moderator) one which only said this: "Watch out for supplements." (BuddyBlank)
MENE, MENE, TEKEL, UPHARSIN

Post Edited By Moderator (Tudpock18) : 5/1/2019 6:36:40 AM (GMT-6)

Posted 4/30/2019 3:28 PM (GMT 0)
(Post removed by moderator due to rule violations)

Post Edited By Moderator (Tudpock18) : 5/1/2019 6:37:47 AM (GMT-6)

Posted 4/30/2019 3:34 PM (GMT 0)

Buddy Blank said...

Re: the nutritional value of supplements = worthless, none, zilch, zero, a waste of money.

It doesn't appear that F8 took saw palmetto for the nutritional benefit. He took it to relieve his urinary symptoms caused by his BPH-enlarged prostate. Based on his opening post, it also doesn't appear that fuzzboxman is looking for nutritional benefit, either.


But BTW, there are many men here who have supplemented their Vitamin D deficiencies (for example) under doctor's care and would likely think that your comment above (comments removed by moderator for rule violations)

Post Edited By Moderator (Tudpock18) : 5/1/2019 6:38:56 AM (GMT-6)

Posted 4/30/2019 3:47 PM (GMT 0)

Blackjack said...

Buddy Blank said...

Re: the nutritional value of supplements = worthless, none, zilch, zero, a waste of money.

It doesn't appear that F8 took saw palmetto for the nutritional benefit. He took it to relieve his urinary symptoms caused by his BPH-enlarged prostate. Based on his opening post, it also doesn't appear that fuzzboxman is looking for nutritional benefit, either.


But BTW, there are many men here who have supplemented their Vitamin D deficiencies (for example) under doctor's care and would likely think that your comment above is worthless and a waste of internet space.


............................................................................
You make a good point. I'm thinking Buddy probably has not read the many studies, including RCTs, posted here, that have shown benefit for various supplements or diets against cancer and other health issues. Apparently my niece's cancer doc has. He has had her on 10,000/day of vitamin D since about 2014. She was diagnosed with stage 3 breast cancer in 2010 and treated, came back in 2012 and treated, came back as stage 4 in 2014, which was more or less about the time he added the vitamin D to her treatment. So, apparently that is one doctor who thinks there might possibly be an advantage, with much less possibility of harm.
Posted 4/30/2019 3:57 PM (GMT 0)

Buddy Blank said...
Billy there isn't one supplement that helps cancer from recurring. Not one.

A healthy human immunity system resists new cancers and fights off existing cancers...I guess not everyone knows this. Nutrition, exercise, good sleep, lowered stress levels...these are all ways that people can improve the performance of their immune system, and contribute to improved natural cancer resistance. You will find that physicians recommend supplements for many people due to nutritional deficiencies. Smart!

As I previously said, always discuss all meds prescribed or OTC with your doctor.
MENE, MENE, TEKEL, UPHARSIN

Post Edited (Blackjack) : 4/30/2019 12:48:29 PM (GMT-6)

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