Lower (but not Low) carb dieting

MyFitnessPal is a great app for tracking carbs, calories, etc

Well after not eating any red meat for 5 wks and being pretty good at eating healthy I splurged last nite and went and had the 9.99 hamburger at Perkins. Left off the sauce and didn't eat the greasy fries but mmmmm the triple berry pie sure was good don't even wanna know the carb count! LOL Felt guilty so went out and walked the dog after we got home so ended up with total of 7 miles walked yesterday. One of my favorite low carb meals is spinach,kale, a tomato, a onion which I cook up first in olive oil then slide to the side of the pan and throw in two eggs mixed with a touch of skim milk and lots of pepper then when the eggs are cooked throw two slices of cheese on top throw on the veggies then fold over like an omelet. mm good! my wife says it smells terrible but I can't smell it but it sure tastes good! Was reading on mdlynx about low carb eating and one of the doctors said they basically ate the same thing but they just threw the eggs onto the veggie mix and mixed it altogether I might have to try that.

Larry

So, here's where I am today....

When I started doing this different eating pattern (I hesitate to use the word 'diet' because it has a lot of negative connotations--and diets by definition are short term things)....I was triggered by (a) a fasting blood glucose of 105 (and that number repeated twice in 6 months), and (b) a definite knowledge that I was getting too much of a roll around the waist.

My daily meal pattern now is:

Breakfast: 6 ounces of reconstituted orange juice from concentrate (store brand); 2 eggs, scrambled; 1 container of chobani 'lower sugar' yogurt. Net carbs for the whole thing, about 40 grams.

Lunch: 2 cups of salad, consisting of about 1/2 boston lettuce, 1/2 romaine, red leaf, or green leaf (depending on what's good at the store), a little chopped sweet pepper and red onion. Garnished with 2-3 tablespoons of croutons and crisp onions and red peppers. 2-4 tablespoons of 'light' salad dressing. Net carbs, about 30 grams.

Dinner: 4-6 ounces of meat--beef, chicken breast, or fish. 1/2-3/4 cup of steamed broccoli, green beans, or uncooked cabbage or broccoli slaw. Potatoes, rice, or pasta no more than 1/2 cup cooked, no more than twice a week. Net carbs, again, about 30-50 grams.

Other: 1 or 2 beers a week. I like brown ales--Founder's Curmudgeon's better half is my current fave. Maybe another mixed drink each week, or a shot of bailey's on the rocks once or twice a week. Halo coconut milk ice cream once in a while.

Results: I'm 5/10. I've always had a slim build. I'm down from my peak of 185 to 170. The belly roll is vanishing. I haven't had a bad night of reflux for a while (I actually don't remember the last time). I feel better. I just do. I haven't had a glucose test. So far, so good.

Halbert, that’s a great result. Keep it up!

I am eating less carbs than you, maybe 70 grams a day. And still not losing weight. Very frustrating, I’m assuming it’s the Lupron effects, even though I’m finished, T is still below castrate levels

Thing is, it doesn't feel low calorie. I'm not hungry, hardly at all. And when I snack, I nibble on things like hummus and deli meat...not sugary stuff. I'm not watching everything I eat, not at all. If a box of donuts shows up at the office...I will eat one.

The whole point is to be conscious but not crazy.

Tudpock18 said...

halbert said...
Thing is, it doesn't feel low calorie. .

But it clearly is a low calorie diet. A rough calculation would indicate you are having about 1000 calories a day. Normal weight maintenance would be around 2500 calories, give or take. With a 1500 calorie debit each day you should lose about 3 pounds per week - again give or take because of the occasional beers and snacks.

I went on a similar diet a few years back when I need to knock off about 15 pounds and it worked beautifully. Then (and now) I'm back to a more balanced weight-maintenance diet that gives me the nutrition I need w/o supplements.

Glad this is working for you but I still contend it's the calorie count that you have deleted not simply carbs (which obviously have calories also).

Jim

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You are right, it seems pretty low cal. But at only 100-120 gms of carb a day, that is only about 400-480 calories per day from carb. Compared to a more normal 2500 cal X 65% carb = 1625 carb cal. or 406 gms carb. ( or 1500cal/375gm.carb if I use 60% from carb), a 75% reduction from the norm for most folks.

Halbert, I would imagine that is low enough carb for a long enough period that you are in at least light ketosis. If so, that would be the key to not being hungry. Because there are a whole bunch more calories coming in from burned body fat(which = ketones), and it functions sort of like an IV drip of energy. If you had some ketone sticks- I think a bottle cost about $6 - you could measure, if interested. But, no hunger even with little food pretty much means you are in some ketosis.

In fact, any diet that leads to ketosis usually ends up being a lower calorie diet, because people are just not hungry. One of the advantages is that you can start out eating all you want- actually, you always can eat all you want, calories are never limited. You don't have to over come the mental hurdle of eating 1/2 of the total amount and facing hunger. Or eating 3/4 and seeing no results for quite a while, and still being hungry. But if those carbs are limited enough, you will soon be in ketosis and not hungry, even if the calories are not much changed.

But that is the difference: when I have gone low cal without restricting the carbs, and when many of my friends have gone low cal, we are often pretty miserable because we are hungry all day long. Not every one of course, but so many report feeling like they are starving, day after day. You would think that low cal alone would get you into the no hunger ketosis realm, because after all, cutting calories in 1/2 also means cutting carbs in 1/2, if the % are left the same. But it just doesn't seem to do it nearly as easy as low carb. Because one group often reports "I'm starving" while the other group reports "I'm not hungry", as you are. I think that is because before ketosis is reached with a low calorie diet- which might only cut carbs from 400 gm to 200 or 300 for example, it will take a while to get into ketosis. And also the body immediately responds to the reduced calories with a lowered metabolism. Not so if we are still eating almost the same amount of calories, but way fewer from carb. At least that has been my experience.

Of course, at zero carbs AND zero protein(the body can make glucose from any protein more than needed for muscle maintenance), and even zero fat, fasting is also the fastest way into ketosis. And indeed, when I do a 23 hr fast(supper to supper) as I did yesterday, I usually find that the roughest point is about lunch time to 2PM, I will be thinking about food and looking forward to supper. But by the time I get to supper, I am not all that hungry and probably eat little more than I would if I had breakfast and lunch that day,

On Easter Sunday, I found myself at a big lunch gathering, and I got there about 1PM, having fasted from the night/supper before. So I got to all this good food at my usual point of max hunger, and I made a pig out of myself. However, since I was so full, when supper time got here, I just decided "to heck with it", and skipped supper. When I got up the next morning, I decided to keep that fast going until at least 1pm for a 24 hour fast. By the time I got there, since I was not really very hungry, I kept it going to supper, for a 29 hour fast. The point is: I was not all that hungry, unlike 1pm Easter at my norm max hunger point. I used a ketone stick and I was in ketosis. Thus the supper I ate was pretty normal, not excessive at all.

But what I realized at that point was: I'm not really hungry, and I'm pretty sure I could keep this going until tomorrow pretty easily, for a 48+ hr fast. I read somewhere that the hardest fasts are the ones like I typically do, the 18 or 23 hour fasts. Because by the time you get to the 24 hour mark, the hard part is over. And all the good stuff is just starting to happen, so why cut it off if you are not very hungry? But so far, I have only done 23 hour fasts once or twice a week, and past that by another 23 hours 1 time. I'm trying to get the ba*** to extend that a bit. If I am not suffering, why not?

Post Edited (BillyBob@388) : 5/2/2019 12:12:44 PM (GMT-6)

halbert said...
Now of course will come the key question--how do you increase the (non) carb to maintain without raising the carbs much? Cuz that is the next move--to find the balance where the good stuff keeps happening without turning into a skeleton.

Note, I have a unusual dairy intolerance--i actually think I'm missing an enzyme--that precludes butterfat from my diet (no whole butter, no whole cream ice cream, no cheese), so suggestions that include those items are non-starters.

Well, the obvious answer is more meat, but some prefer to limit that for a variety of reasons. And some prefer the fattier cuts, as too much protein raises some questions for some. Concentrating on increasing just fat avoids the excess protein concerns. Good old olive oil and vinegar poured generously over the salad(and boy do I love to dip bread in that, but there come the carbs). Avocados, coconut and nuts and flax seed have tons of fat and very low net carb, with out the protein(or animal) concerns for those that might have them..

On the subject of hunger, does any one ever eat a big steak dinner, and then some asks "would you like another steak?", how often do you jump at that opportunity for another steak? As delicious as it was, and as much as you are going to want another one in a day or so, if I just at a 12 oz steak, I probably have no interest in another one. But if some one asks if I'd like to see the dessert menu? Quite likely, even if I am so full I need to wait a a little while before eating it, it still sounds good. I can often make room for a dessert that is many hundreds of calories, when the thought of eating another steak is not attractive at all. So I guess my point is, when we are talking about low carb eaters not eating as much just naturally: it's not just the hunger killing ketosis. Protein and fat are sort of self limiting. As delicious as they seem at the start of a meal, I can't really eat but so much of them and then I do not want another bite. But if I sit down in front of the TV with a bag of cookies or chips, even if I am kind of full from supper, look out stomach, here it comes!

Post Edited (BillyBob@388) : 5/1/2019 11:14:00 AM (GMT-6)

InTheShop said...
I've been on my low carb diet since last Sep. Yesterday I got the confirmation email - she's agreed that I can stop the statins now and has suggested I could cut my BP dose in half. She just wants one more confirmation BP check at the clinic (I take it at home, but my little machine isn't the most accurate thing).

Andrew

That is just sweet! And actually, pretty much as predicted. I'm also betting that if you had been on the verge of getting diabetes meds, that would all be in the rear view mirror by now.

What about your total calories? Are they also much reduced, even if you are not really hungry?
Bill

Back in 2016, and I’ve mentioned this before, I lost about 40 pounds and got my Triglycerides down from 350 to 85 without meds, on a very low carb regimen. Now it’s not working for me, as I’ve mentioned.
This thread , along with a few others, has made me think back,about what was different then.....
Clearly one thing, I wasn’t on/feeling the effects of Lupron. But also, thinking back then, I was also on low fat. So I just wonder if it’s the low fat that did it, or the combination. Or being on low fat, low carb, by default, means being low calories. Bingo.
So as hard at that is, I’m off to try low carb, “reduced” saturated fat, and I’ll report back
Lots of studies have shown that it’s the carbs that matter most. I believe in that. But maybe, just maybe, someone with a (presumably) genetic predisposition to high TG and metabolic syndrome, (my dad had late onset type2 diabetes) needs some level of lower fat as well,
We’ll soon find out.

InTheShop said...
I don't count calories, but likely it's a bit less. My fasting glucose hasn't dropped much, but enough that the doc isn't discussing that anymore.

Andrew

Kudos to you for even a slight improvement in your blood sugar! The possible glory of that is this: Even if your glucose is the same or hasn't dropped much, there might still be spectacular improvements in that item that they hardly ever measure(but should IMO) except except during studies on T2 Diabetics, and more rarely in cancer studies. I.E., yes, here it comes again: blood insulin levels and insulin resistance. Which if improved, can have major implications for over all health. And which often seems to go hand in hand with a triglyceride reduction. And also with a reduction in the old spare tire size. In fact, a good sized spare tire on an otherwise lean person points to insulin resistance, no blood test needed. Or so I have read. Since my fasting and/or post parandial insulin has never been measured far as I know, I can't really say how all of that works for me. I do, however, know how it all works relative to my triglycerides.

Your glucose can stay little changed, but since so much less is going in, your pancreas might be required to produce way less insulin to keep the sugar within a good range, thus getting a well deserved break. Sort of like when a T2 diabetic improves to where they need to inject far less insulin, and or see a reduction or elimination in other diabetic meds. Always good news for overall health. ALWAYS. I speak as a person who participated in the removal of many extremities over my long career in the OR and hospital in general. Anything that can reduce the advance of this disease, even if just by reducing the untested for insulin, is a major health coup.

This whole discussion about calorie counts with or without carb counting really is interesting. Let's assume that the standard advice is correct--that an adult male needs 1800-2000 calories a day to maintain weight--how do you achieve that on a moderate to low net carb load? Given the clear value of limiting carb intake, both in quantity and quality, increasing carbs is the easy way out...but not the healthiest.

Adding meat and protein is challenging, adding fat is relatively easy (a pound of bacon a day?), but is it best? I'm asking all this because I'm going to have to head that direction soon--and I'm not sure of the path. Ideas?

What a gorgeous morning 24 degrees 0 wind 0 clouds and 6 miles as my grandson would say it doesn't get no gooder!
🚶‍♂️🚶‍♂️🚶‍♂️

Larry