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Biopsy Release of PCa

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Posted 10/21/2019 7:26 PM (GMT 0)

Seems a short walk to a conclusion many had thought.
Biopsy Release of PCa
Posted 10/21/2019 7:43 PM (GMT 0)
Well, if it turns out to be a significant problem it likely will give more weight to the idea of avoiding PCa screening. What a kicker - successful treatment of the primary tumor, only to develop systemic mets due to biopsy.

I suppose surgery would present risk as well.
Posted 10/21/2019 8:29 PM (GMT 0)
I suspect that any type of cancer that is diagnosed by using a needle biopsy is at risk for spreading the disease.. In effect, the biopsy becomes a death sentence for many cancer patients..

When I was first diagnosed, my Urologist answered my question on this subject by saying "It never happens. We have examined the needle tracks from biopsies in removed prostate glands and the tracks are cancer free, the needles did not spread any cancer along their path..." How much validity that statement has I do not know but it ended my discussion with the urologist / surgeon..
Posted 10/21/2019 8:33 PM (GMT 0)
so we should stop doing biopsies?
Posted 10/21/2019 8:52 PM (GMT 0)
AS could become more dangerous until it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy?
Posted 10/21/2019 9:16 PM (GMT 0)
Fairwind,
They may have checked the track of the needles, but they could never have monitored the continued bleeeding.

I don't know about anyone but me, but my biopsy was a terribly bloody mess.

I have no doubt it HELPED spread my cancer as my cancer was already in the lymph nodes.

InTheShop
Stop biopsies?
No, but maybe change the procedure to every guy getting an MRI first.
No more blind biopsies, and only biopsy when MRI says probable cancer.

Mumbo,
My PCP basically did AS on me. At 50 my PSA was 4.0, at 52 it was 7.8, he referred me to a Uro.

I've oft wondered if the CTC blood test could be used?
But that might only work for advanced cases.
Posted 10/21/2019 9:29 PM (GMT 0)
Let's hope that new blood test will hopefully cut down on biopsies.
Posted 10/21/2019 9:41 PM (GMT 0)
Very interesting, and a bit scary if true. However, this study appears to be very of limited(115) patients and from authors of only two Universities, in France and Germany. maybe they had a stake in increasing use of expensive MRI's The authors last sentence in the conclusion is telling " Larger confirmatory trials with longer follow-up periods are required before any change in clinical practice can be recommended"
Any studies like that in study in America. Not saying USA leads the way in research, indeed many feel overseas afforts are leading the way, and not saying it might be true, but a cautious approch should be done before one is convined. I have no horse in the race, as upon my biopsy " the horse had already left the barn".
Flailing Wings
Posted 10/21/2019 10:09 PM (GMT 0)
Does "release of circulating tumor cells" necessarily result in tumor growth at remote locations?

I remember discussing something like this with my uro and he felt that wandering cancer cells need to reach some sort of critical mass at a new location before they can form new tumors. He also said that small numbers of wandering cells don't latch onto anything to start the process of propagation, so not to worry. He said, in fact, that minute numbers of loose cancer cells usually die, as they don't develop support systems on their own.

Now, I would readily agree that theory and practice may diverge here. Yes, the cells may migrate. Yes, they are cancerous cells. But. . . do they have the ability to create new tumors on their own?
Posted 10/21/2019 10:36 PM (GMT 0)
To Paxton's question. I suspect that it's quite common, or possibly nearly always true, that cancer cells are released into the blood stream from invasive procedures. It may also be true that such cells are usually incapable of taking root elsewhere. But I suspect it does happen. The question is how often? Even if it does happen, what alternative is there? Not much, I guess. Sometimes the dice are worth rolling, sometimes not.
Posted 10/21/2019 10:44 PM (GMT 0)
This doesn’t surprise me as it makes sense that cells would be released. Remember that 50% of men at age 50 have measurable PCa CTC. But we know that few men at 50 are diagnosed with PCa and only a small fraction of all men develop metastatic PCa. This means that for most men, none of the cells in the bloodstream can find a place to live and thrive.

To think that a biopsy caused metastatic cancer is quite a leap that is not even remotely suggested by this abstract. I am certainly not aware of any other study that documents the link. As the study says, a lot more has to be learned.
Posted 10/22/2019 1:42 AM (GMT 0)
just another angel on the head of a pin...angst on...or not!! ummm...back to life...
Posted 10/22/2019 1:51 AM (GMT 0)
logo? Back & better than ever? Hope so.
Posted 10/22/2019 7:21 PM (GMT 0)
Logo,
Same exclamation and proclamation and exasperation as Go Bucks said, hope so too! Missed Ya!
Wings thru the curl !
Posted 10/22/2019 9:38 PM (GMT 0)
biopsy is so invasive and risk of side effects leads one to hope that only bph symptoms is what I'm experiencing
Posted 10/23/2019 2:53 AM (GMT 0)
Chances are extremely low says a somewhat famous institute(Dana Farber):
https://blog.dana-farber.org/insight/2017/05/can-a-tumor-biopsy-or-surgery-cause-cancer-to-spread/
Myth says survey of 2,000 patients Mayo Clinic:
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/01/150109093717.htm

Sorry to have to drop the mike with that.
However, I sure do wish a more advanced technique is developed than the sometimes painful sometimes damaging biopsy. No one can possibly enjoy that procedure, I dreaded mine, was petrified even, but put it off way too long.
Dan

Post Edited (Wings of Eagles) : 10/23/2019 9:50:20 AM (GMT-6)

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