Hard to believe Americans are protesting for the right to catch, and spread, COVID-19

alephnull said...
From the CDC-Flu estimates.

The link below estimates Flu deaths this flu season to be anywhere from 24K to 62K. It also states that these numbers may well be under estimated.
Isn't 62K the same number that they are estimating for corona virus?

Flu - CDC

Alephnull, paraphrasing the President from last night's briefing, I believe you are comparing apples and oranges when you even bring up flu deaths vs. COVID-19 deaths. Without the extraordinary measures he stated that the deaths would have been in the range of 2 million, not 60,000. This was not Dr. Fauci or some deep-stater, this was the President who has been criticized for moving too slowly. So the question for you is what is an "acceptable" number of deaths to preserve our "freedom and liberty"? Is it 2 million? How about 10 million? 100 million?

I contend that our government does have a role to play in assuring our safety and security. Unfettered freedom to do anything we want was never envisioned by the Founders BTW, your quote from Ben Franklin was taken out of context and has nothing to do with the current debate. He was literally talking about a Pennsylvania tax dispute...certainly not implying that the federal government has no role in our safety...

Jim

Buddy Blank said...
Well put Jim.

=========

BTW aleph: "We are quite a bit bigger than any other country except for China and Russia, that's why we have more deaths."

We've more deaths because we didn't take it seriously, didn't lock down our cities and states, didn't have the needed medical equipment, etc. If we had locked down the entire country for a month, or two, when we knew, via China telling us, that this was coming, I doubt we'd have almost 44,000 dead (and counting), and I doubt we'd have to remain in lockdown much longer. We failed. Now we're paying for that failure. I will go out on a limb and predict if we open up too soon we will pay even more dearly, and have to shut down again. After a second shutdown, I doubt we will see our economy come back to its previous levels in our lifetimes.

******
we have many more coronavirus deaths than any other country in the world, bigger or smaller! New York State alone has 20k deaths -- a little less than half the US total -- and it has a population of 20m. New York is right up there with Spain, Italy and France in covid deaths! Italy and France each have over 3x the population of New York and Spain is more than double!

we are the covid capital of the world! we are number 1!

I am surprised this thread hasn't been closed as yet...
(Way) too much politics!

Sr Sailor said...
I am surprised this thread hasn't been closed as yet...
(Way) too much politics!

Why not let people have their say? This isn't like normal times.

Please don't compare Covid-19 with ordinary flu. If USA didn't implement social distancing and stay home, the death toll from Covid-19 might have exceeded 2 or 3 million. Americans are obeying all restrictions quite well. That's why the death toll may be around 60000. With some of the states in a rush to reopen, the death toll may be much more than this. Let us have some patience and reopen very cautiously.

mattam said...
I have a terrible feeling that the states pushing to "reopen" are latching onto the idea that if we all wear masks (often homemade gerry-rigs) everything will okay. I think this is probably preposterous, and may be why authorities were initially reluctant to recommend masks for fear that people would have a false sense of security. A mask of any sort may make you safer, but it ain't going be safe.

I think some regrettable decisions are being made in some parts of the country.

The CDC "gating" criteria to qualify for the first phase of opening are being ignored by these governors despite objections of bigger-city mayors. This bodes very badly. In two or three weeks we'll see the damage.

Djjn

Post Edited (DjinTonic) : 4/21/2020 7:36:55 PM (GMT-6)

"I think of a hero as someone who understands the degree of responsibility that comes with his freedom." -- Bob Dylan

F8 said...
Georgia CV cases are not on the downswing and the state is way behind on testing. yet on Friday you'll be able to ... get a handjob.

Yeah, sure, but it won't feel the same with a glove.

mattam said...
I have a terrible feeling that the states pushing to "reopen" are latching onto the idea that if we all wear masks (often homemade gerry-rigs) everything will okay. I think this is probably preposterous, and may be why authorities were initially reluctant to recommend masks for fear that people would have a false sense of security. A mask of any sort may make you safer, but it ain't going be safe.

I think some regrettable decisions are being made in some parts of the country.

The other day I found out there was something called the anti-mask league in San Francisco during the Spanish Flu pandemic. It didn't go well for the city.

https://www.influenzaarchive.org/cities/city-sanfrancisco.html

I am surprised how some states are beginning to reopen. My state of SC is a prime example. The numbers are continuing to rise but our Governor thinks it is time to relax restrictions. But that doesn't mean I am going out just because the Governor thinks it is safe to go back in the water.
On those times where I have to go to the grocery/drug store I am stunned at the number of people who aren't wearing masks.
We live close to Georgia and I read where their Governor is allowing restaurants to reopen with inside dining. As much as I would like to dine in again at our favorite restaurants, the number of those getting the virus will have be zero before I feel safe to do that.

TD hit the nail on the head. We have to hope and pray that the citizenry is smarter than the governors of these states. I agree with Halbert, I’m guessing there will be enough idiots that don’t stay home and instead, take advantage of the new relaxed rules. I hope I’m wrong. I get the damage that staying closed does to businesses, especially small businesses, and to employees of those businesses. Just seems to me though, that noth9ng is more important than saving lives.

On a side note it’s interesting to me that , as TD mentioned, South Carolina is one of the states reopening early. Last week I read that I couldn’t rent a hotel room in SC (not that I’d want to, when I do drive home from Florida I’ll be sleeping in my car for a few hours ), because they instituted an order not allowing hotels take reservations from people from hot zone states. And now they are opening 🥺

When my son was small, one day he told me he didn't want to use the handrail as we were going down the steps into the basement workshop. I told him that I had put the handrails by the steps to make them safer for us going down the stairs and asked him would he please use them to be safe. He said "no!", let go the rail, took one step and fell down, smashing his face on the basement floor. When he got up crying he had a black eye and a broken lip. He then understood that I was not lying and he should indeed use the handrails when traversing the stairs.

Perhaps this is how we are going to learn about easily transmissible contagious diseases.

I cut up an old shirt, sewed up my own mask on my 1919 Singer portable sewing machine and wore that sukka to the grocery store last week. Will do so until the box of disposables I ordered gets here from China, then I'll use those.

Buddy Blank said...
Hal on Nextdoor I've seen some locals say they would not risk a restaurant etc. now. I don't know how many feel that way but count me as one of them. If I had to guess at a number, I's say maybe 40% will risk it, but that's just a wild guess.

A national poll on today's news has 75% believing that non-essential workers should not go out in public.