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Ooops! Well, it seems we should have possibly been looking into this a bit more

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Posted 1/15/2021 8:59 PM (GMT 0)
There was huge controversy over this drug earlier in the year(or actually early last year). Then debate over it finally disappeared, at least in this country. But this new study out of Germany seems to indicate maybe we should have paid more attention to it. Which is also what Henry Ford Health Systems previously said, and some other folks.

5 times more hospitalization and 5 times more death in the group that did not get low dose hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin + zinc; a study out of Germany:

"Highlights
•
First COVID-19 outpatient study based on risk stratification and early antiviral treatment at the beginning of the disease.
•
Low-dose hydroxychloroquine combined with zinc and azithromycin was an effective therapeutic approach against COVID-19.
•
Significantly reduced hospitalization rates in the treatment group.
•
Reduced mortality rates in the treatment group. .............
Of 141 treated patients, 4 (2.8%) were hospitalized, which was significantly fewer (P < 0.001) compared with 58 (15.4%) of 377 untreated patients [odds ratio (OR) = 0.16, 95% confidence interval (CI) 0.06–0.5]. One patient (0.7%) in the treatment group died versus 13 patients (3.4%) in the untreated group (OR = 0.2, 95% CI 0.03–1.5; P = 0.12). No cardiac side effects were observed. "
https://reader.elsevier.com/reader/sd/pii/s0924857920304258?token=a3c8ad98faaf012c1e617288ce47e6b0a20ce8f3b3ed2f93d0adb0391d53b9b5ee276f3c0acb71d3fd2298f9245f6633

Post Edited (BillyBob@388) : 1/16/2021 6:46:58 AM (GMT-7)

Posted 1/16/2021 1:07 PM (GMT 0)
Appreciate your diligence.
Posted 1/16/2021 2:57 PM (GMT 0)
Those 141 patients were treated between March and May 2020.

After reviewing several large scale trial data, the World Health Organization issued this statement in July:

"hydroxychloroquine does not result in the reduction of mortality of hospitalized COVID-19 patients."

They stopped all further research at that time.
Posted 1/16/2021 3:05 PM (GMT 0)
there will 400K deaths in the united states by next week
Posted 1/16/2021 3:57 PM (GMT 0)
Curious...anyone tracking flu cases/deaths yet or is it too soon...or just not important as " big brother " >>>>>>>umm I thought so...
Posted 1/16/2021 4:33 PM (GMT 0)

logoslidat said...
Curious...anyone tracking flu cases/deaths yet or is it too soon...or just not important as " big brother " >>>>>>>umm I thought so...

Amazingly there is no flu this year. Only Covid. It seems that either
1) Nobody is wearing masks and Covid is legion or
2) Everyone is wearing masks and preventing the flu or
3) Flu is being misdiagnosed without a Covid test as Covid or
4) Some wicked combo of the above 3 things.

...but yeah. No flu. Just Covid.

Study or no study tons of people were given hydrowhateveritscalled in the last 9 months as doctors improvised, including my daughter (nurse), where it seemed to help, and I was thankful for that. On the other hand hydrowhateveritscalled did not save my godfather, but he was pretty far along before they tried.
Posted 1/16/2021 6:34 PM (GMT 0)
Despite the fact that there are a contingent of folks who want to continue to downplay COVID ("flu is misdiagnosed as COVID, blah, blah, blah") there are common sense reasons that flu is down this year. https://www.healthline.com/health-news/covid19-is-surging-but-flu-cases-are-down#the-bottom-line

Jim
Posted 1/17/2021 12:41 AM (GMT 0)

ASAdvocate said...
Those 141 patients were treated between March and May 2020.

After reviewing several large scale trial data, the World Health Organization issued this statement in July:

"hydroxychloroquine does not result in the reduction of mortality of hospitalized COVID-19 patients."

They stopped all further research at that time.

They were? But when were the results published? I see "As of June 2020, no studies of COVID-19 outpatients treated with HCQ at an early stage of the disease have been reported." and "Study approval The study was approved by the Western Institutional Review Board and was exempt under 45 CFR § 46.104(d)(4). Ref. number: D4-Excemption-Zelenko (06-16-2020).". And the only date I see for the publishing(I suppose) of this study is "International Journal of Antimicrobial Agents
Volume 56, Issue 6, December 2020,".

But, even if this data for early treatment of outpatients was available back when WHO made that statement, then we still have the statement from WHO "hydroxychloroquine does not result in the reduction of mortality of hospitalized COVID-19 patients." to be contrasted with the report of these researchers of 5 times more death in those that did not get the "low dose hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin + zinc;". Which will set up an interesting conflict. But also, again even if this study was available at the time WHO made that statement, WHO only refers to hospitalized patients. This treatment is all outpatient and started at very early stages. Also, I don't know if WHO was looking at the inclusion of zinc, or not. Perhaps they were?
Posted 1/17/2021 12:54 AM (GMT 0)

Stephen S said...

logoslidat said...
Curious...anyone tracking flu cases/deaths yet or is it too soon...or just not important as " big brother " >>>>>>>umm I thought so...

Amazingly there is no flu this year. Only Covid. It seems that either
1) Nobody is wearing masks and Covid is legion or
2) Everyone is wearing masks and preventing the flu or
3) Flu is being misdiagnosed without a Covid test as Covid or
4) Some wicked combo of the above 3 things.

...but yeah. No flu. Just Covid.

Study or no study tons of people were given hydrowhateveritscalled in the last 9 months as doctors improvised, including my daughter (nurse), where it seemed to help, and I was thankful for that. On the other hand hydrowhateveritscalled did not save my godfather, but he was pretty far along before they tried.


..........................................................................................................................................


Stephen, glad to hear it seemed to help your daughter, and very sorry to hear it did not help your godfather. But yes, early seems to be the key, and low dose seems to be the key to very low SEs. Do you remember that group of doctors who had a press conference insisting that it was very helpful? And they were widely criticised as kooks and one of the female docs was fired as soon as she got back home? I remember them insisting that an early start was the key, and that low doses were all that was needed, and that was the key to having no cardiac problems. Just as this study showed no cardiac problems. Also, the combination with zinc seems to be important. I think that is actually how it works: by transporting the zinc out of the blood stream and inside the cells where the virus is causing havoc. I think the term is: zinc ionophore. There are other substances that are supposedly zinc ionophores, such as quercetin and green tea. And just in case that is true, that is why I take those things with my zinc. But who knows?
Posted 1/17/2021 1:29 AM (GMT 0)
Don't know about Y'all, but personally, I'm thinking that if I can't get IV vitamin C- and I probably can't unless I can get to Memphis and maybe the FLCCC doc that is there- then I hope my doctor would be open minded enough to prescribe me the low dose hydroxychloroquine(HCQ) immediately upon diagnoses, aka EARLY. If they won't prescribe zinc, I can take my own. And if they refuse to prescribe the HCQ, then I will continue to take what I HOPE(bit don't know for sure) is DIY HCQ. Those zinc ionophores. Which may or not be such. But, I have already been taking all of those(all but the HCQ of course) anyway for quite a while. And Lord help me, if I end up with the Covid and sick enough for the hospital or even ICU, where the HCQ may ot help much, please Lord get me to a critical care doctor (like the one 90 miles away in Memphis) who - along with all the other normal treatments they want to give- also gives me IV vitamin C. If I(or my loved ones) can't get to the Doc in Memphis, I hope I can convince my local docs to give e some dang high dose IV vitamin C.

Post Edited (BillyBob@388) : 1/16/2021 6:32:25 PM (GMT-7)

Posted 1/17/2021 3:03 AM (GMT 0)

Tudpock18 said...
Despite the fact that there are a contingent of folks who want to continue to downplay COVID ("flu is misdiagnosed as COVID, blah, blah, blah") there are common sense reasons that flu is down this year. https://www.healthline.com/health-news/covid19-is-surging-but-flu-cases-are-down#the-bottom-line

Jim

i remember when they were saying sweden was right not to shut down
Posted 1/18/2021 4:30 PM (GMT 0)
Yes, nearly no flu this year at all. For the reasons above, and I think that Mask wearing, social distancing and personal hand hygiene are the primary reasons, but the first derivative impact is that Flu usually starts in the Southern Hemisphere, and migrates to the North. Last year nearly all south to north and north to south travel was stopped, at least relative to any prior year so global transmission from the annual source countries and regions essentially was stopped.
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