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Posted 6/14/2021 5:08 PM (GMT 0)
I am curious what others with PCa (I start EBRT on June 21) have concluded regarding nutrition. I have been researching this and there seem to be a variety of opinions with some comonalities. Although most sources (The Cancer Diet Cookbook and Chilkov's Quickstart Guide to Outsmart Cancer etc.) seem to think skinless chicken is OK
and and even occasional lean beef and a bit of dairy, M. Greger lays out a case in How Not to Die for going pure vegan, strongly against dairy, poultry, eggs and, of course, red meat. Everyone seems to agree on the benefits of flaxseed, cruciferous veggies, berries, cold-water fish and the harm from alcohol and sugar. As I am relatively new here, I am just wondering if there is any consensus, especially experience-based, or widely varying opinions here as elsewhwere?

PlatoK
Posted 6/14/2021 5:22 PM (GMT 0)
One of our members, the wonderfully named Cashlessclay, has a long-running thread on his approach to diet. He has more self-control than most of us, but many here seem to follow elements of his approach, but not as diligently:


https://www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=35&m=4039413
Posted 6/14/2021 6:37 PM (GMT 0)
Your general health condition is the result of your past life and not something that can be fixed in a month. Since cancer (lung cancer is first) and heart disease are the leading causes of death in older men, the exposure time is over many years and not easily reversible or corrected at an older age.

If you would prefer to not die from any cause, tending to diet and lifestyle is the key but reversing years of neglect is not really possible. So proper weight, exercise, nuts and berries diet, modest alcohol intake, and obviously no smoking or soldiering will not make your health worse and hopefully improve it a bit over time.

That being said, most people cannot or will not do everything required for best results as life would not be much fun. I can't do it but I can do many things the point in the right direction. Exercise, weight loss and excessive drinking were easy to address for me. Can't quite get to the vegan nuts and berry diet but eat a lot more than pre-PCa and a lot less meat in general, trying to get some tuna and salmon every week. I watch the sugar in things pretty closely now also. You just give it your best shot and live a hopefully longer life.

Most people know what they need to do, doing it is the hard part.
Posted 6/14/2021 8:58 PM (GMT 0)
I’ll offer two diet aspects, one short term during your radiation and the other for the long term.

For the short term, Radiation for PCa will generally have urinary and bowel side effects. Your diet can mitigate these. For urinary, Carbonated, acidic and caffeinated beverages are tough on the urinary system. These should be eliminated during the radiation. I found green tea and water were the best to keep hydrated and not present irritations. For solid foods, keep a moderate balance between proteins and carbs, but reduce the amount of fat from animals and increase plant-based. Stay away from very fibrous or gas producing foods like cabbage and beans. Reduce strong spices like black pepper and other hot peppers. If you are sensitive to lactose, reduce dairy. The radiation effect on your bowel generally results in greater urgency and frequency and sometimes loose and gassy stools. Keep some Imodium D close at hand, if needed.

Longer term, the best diet advice than most people can live with came from the PCa medical oncologist, Snuffy Myers. He followed what he called a modified Mediterranean diet. He modified it by eliminating poultry skin, egg yolks and dairy. These all contain the fatty acid arachidonic acid, which is a known supporter of PCa (he did the initial research on this). In conjunction with the regular Mediterranean diet he suggested less hooved animal protein. He also kept a low processed sugar intake.

Many diets like Cashless or Dean Ornish or Michael Miliken (specifically for PCa) are so strict that most people simply can’t follow them long term. For the best book and information on diet for PCa look up Mark Moyad. It is titled The ABC’s of nutrition and Supplements for Prostate Cancer. He is a professor at The University of Michigan and a recognized nutrition expert and regular speaker at various prostate cancer symposiums.
Posted 6/14/2021 9:02 PM (GMT 0)
I don’t have a specific answer to your question, but the only “risk” factor I had was consuming a lot of dairy over the previous 60 years prior to getting PC. Otherwise, I have always eaten tons of fresh fruit and vegetables, don’t eat much meat, drink < one drink/day, get regular exercise, etc. my doctor attributed my PC to bad luck.
Posted 6/14/2021 10:10 PM (GMT 0)
I dont think anybody really knows. I did a lot of reading and after i was diagnosed i started to eliminate things like cheese, eggs, red meat. But over time, i realized for me, its just not sustainable, so i try to just indulge moderately in the foods i love, and i try to stay away from sugar.

The conclusion i finally came to, and there is zero science to this, just logic in my mind (whatever is left of it), is that when it comes to cancer, diets effects are at the cellular level. And that type of effect takes years and years to have an effect. So eliminating these things now, that i have been eating for 60 years, is a waste of my energy, and a uselss detractor from my quality of life. So F it.
I know this wont make sense to everyone, but it works for me. If the food i eat puts me down in 20 years, i'm ok with it. I'll be 90 by then, and will have had a good run.

With that said, i do try to abide by some rules to keep my lipids under control. But thats a different issue.
Posted 6/14/2021 10:49 PM (GMT 0)
I gotta say I also fall in Pratoman's camp. Probably not the wisest thing in the world for me, but I'm also trying to strike a balance between the things that I enjoy today, coupled with a goal of hoping I hang around for another 20 years. Now I don't think I eat poorly--fish 2-3 times a week and I avoid junk food and sweets, well I actually don't eat carbs at all. But I eat meat, dairy and eggs. (A lot of eggs.)

My hat is off to the guys here that have made wholesale changes to their diet. Not to mention the guys that have had good eating habits their entire lives!
Posted 6/14/2021 11:17 PM (GMT 0)
I'm with JNF re the diet for reducing radiation effects most specifically cutting out caffeine, carbonated drinks and spicy foods. Once radiation is completed I guess that some of the strict dietary plans may lead to better overall health. But honestly I'm more with Prato and Michael...exercise, keep your weight to a reasonable level, don't let your BP and cholesterol get out of control and then everything in moderation. I'm 75 now and love a good steak (small portions), a couple of glasses of red wine, a few carbs thrown in and a little dessert.

My quality of life is just as important as the quantity and eating food that I like is just part of that quality.

Jim
Posted 6/16/2021 1:23 PM (GMT 0)
eat better and exercise and you will feel better while you are still around
Posted 6/17/2021 10:51 AM (GMT 0)
There is no doubt that the Standard American Diet (SAD) is unhealthy: too many carbs and sugars, not enough veggies and fruits, too much fried stuff, and huge portions adds up to nothing good. Diabetes, heart disease, immune disorders are so common that there has to be a basic root cause.

Whether you go Mediterranean, or Japanese, or Paleo or just go for moderation based on what is available in your neck of the woods, you'll feel better. I'm also one who sees cancer as something we get if we live long enough. It has no single cause--it's a cumulative thing that comes from years of exposures to all kinds of things...or in many cases, it just is.

Reducing carbs is a good thing. My goal is to average around 100 grams of net carbs a day. That's still a ways from full blown keto (which I don't think I could sustain), but it does have an effect on weight and the spare tire. I have unusual issues with dairy products: I'm not lactose intolerant, but I cannot digest full fat dairy products. Butter, high fat ice cream, cheeses of all kinds, are not in my diet. I can manage low fat yogurt (both in the dish and frozen), so my dairy consumption is low.

Exercise is the other component. An hour of commute time each way cuts into the available time. I've recently started doing an exercise program that goes WAY back to the 60's: The RCAF "5BX" exercise program. It actually does work at 10 minutes a day.
Posted 6/17/2021 1:06 PM (GMT 0)
It wasn’t cancer that caused me to look at my own diet 40-some years ago but the realization, during a biology class assignment, that virtually everyone on my family tree dies of heart disease. Everyone. The course seems to be a stroke in your 50s and a fatal heart attack in your 60s. Most males on the tree are gone by 67, including my own father.

I did my research as to risk factors and my family members participated in all of them: typical American, high-fat diet, absolutely zero exercise, extra weight, and most smoked. While I wasn’t a smoker and certainly wasn’t overweight, this was a bit of a wake up call and coincided with my own diagnosis of hypertension during a chance visit to a doctor. I initially tried increasing my activity level and eliminated salt from the diet but ended up taking a daily pill to control it. In the meantime, I looked at diet as an area to attack and transitioned to a vegetarian diet which I have remained on for over 40 years. I have done full vegan on occasion, usually for a full year or two at a time but always 3 days a week and, for me, it does reduce my cholesterol level which I keep at about 180. I took up regular running in my late 40s and have done a few marathons, one, in my mid-50s, where I trained while on a vegan diet. I ran it in 4 hours 37 minutes.

So, for me, I don’t find the diet restrictive or punishing. I have always been the cook of the house and enjoy exploring a wide variety of cuisines. The only issue I have is that I moved from California to Montana 30 years ago so going out to eat is something we no longer do and I tire of the grief I get from others about my diet. And, no, I am not a militant vegetarian. I don’t care what you eat anymore than I care about your religion or political persuasions. I eat and exercise the way I do because it, hopefully, will allow me to live longer than all the males on my family tree. So far, I am beating the average checkout age by 2 years.

When I was diagnosed with prostate cancer I did have one guy say to me something like “all those years of healthy eating didn’t do much for you, did it?” Let’s just say, in contemporary terminology, I “unfriended” him.
Posted 6/17/2021 3:16 PM (GMT 0)
Thanks all for a great running conversation on various diets and personal experiences. I am only two months out from my diagnosis and seeing over and over again the apparent advantage of a vegetarian or near vegetarian approach. Still eating wild-caught fish 2-3 X weekly , occasional organic chicken/turkey, daily power shake (blueberries, strawberries, almond milk, pea powder, flaxseed meal, matcha powder, morenga powder, turmeric and cinnamonsmile. No dairy, a glass or two a week of red wine, as little sugar as possible, no coffee, less and less processed/packaged/canned foods. Getting away from wheat products. It's an.....adventure. smile

PlatoK
Posted 6/18/2021 2:26 AM (GMT 0)
Couple things I eat now:
Unsweetened soy milk (high protein)
Fiber One cereal (no sugar in it)
Diluted orange juice (too much sugar otherwise)
Most fruits and bananas. Blueberries, bananas, and raisins on cereal
Multi-grain oatmeal for a change
Low salt almonds for a snack.
Tuna and Salmon
Balsamic vinegar salad dressing
Some stuff I should not eat but can’t be a saint all the time.

Still have brats and beef once in a while. Do not eat out often. Have a 4oz glass for red wine that I fill halfway then have a beer.

Whatever works for you that helps.
Posted 6/18/2021 1:19 PM (GMT 0)

Hello, PlatoK ~~~

Your post is timely -- with the summer season ahead, this is a great time to stock up on fresh produce at the grocery store or a Farmers' Market on summer weekends.

I have a friend who has a "salsa garden" in her backyard --- and she grows all the produce needed to make fresh salsa for neighbors and friends ~~~ vine-ripened tomatoes, peppers, onions, and herbs.

These days, I quit buying the packages of cookies and candy at the grocery store. I'm doing a much better job of buying fresh fruits and vegetables than before.

I used to drink several glasses of juice each day. These days, I grab an orange or some grapes instead. That simple change reduced sugar intake --- apologies to Welch's, Ocean Spray, and Tropicana.

I focus on drinking cold water.

Here's an easy tip ...

In the summertime, slice up a lemon or lime --- freeze the slices in a container, and add the frozen lemon or lime slices to your glasses of water this summer.

I brew my own iced tea all summer --- no calories --- lots of iced tea flavors --- lemon, peach, raspberry, chai, wintergreen ---- the list goes on.

With your focus on better foods --- just remember to enjoy your favorite foods, along the way. Whether it's a Porterhouse steak and sweet potato fries at your favorite restaurant or a piece of cheesecake, now & again --- that's part of the enjoyment of life!

With your post about healthier food choices, it's important to add activity and exercise to your improved eating plan.

Many prostate cancer medications and treatments can cause increased fatigue, and exercise and activity can help counteract that. Find the activities you like, and try to stay consistent.

In my case, I have a huge park right next to my place that includes a walking trail, a winding creek, a large pond, wooded areas, and prairie areas. I enjoy walks on the trail, and I also enjoy walking at county and state parks and area lakes.

Great to read your inspiring post on healthier eating, PlatoK! Stay active!

Here's to a great summer season ahead ~~~
CYCLONE ~~~ # Iowa State University
Posted 6/18/2021 10:19 PM (GMT 0)
Thanks Mumbo and Cyclone for your additional contributions. Good points from you both. Cyclone, I was raised in the Okoboji area and worked there every summer in high school. Had an aunt that lived in Ames. Alas, I was always a Hawkeye fan. smile One nutrition thing I wonder about is how much less toxic the no-no foods like red meat, coffee, eggs, gluten products etc. might be if the studies focused on organic, grass-fed, free-range versions of the named items. Anyone have a clue?

PlatoK
Posted 6/18/2021 10:57 PM (GMT 0)
Plato,
As others have basically said, moderation for your food intake, while treating yourself on occasion.

I grew up in Marshalltown and got my degree at the U of Iowa. Great to see another Hawkeye on board!
Posted 6/19/2021 1:08 PM (GMT 0)

Note For MATTAM ----- Enjoyed some great old-fashioned "Sunday Dinners" years ago at historic Stone's Restaurant in Marshalltown, Iowa, including their famous "Mile High" meringue pie. Have also been to Taylor's "Maid-Rite" Diner in Marshalltown --- an Iowa landmark.

Note For PlatoK ---- Went to Lake Okoboji every summer, growing up! Still one of my favorite getaways! Always had fun at Arnold's Amusement Park, and my family stayed at The Inn on the shores of West Okoboji Lake every summer.

For you both ---already looking forward to the annual CYCLONE vs. HAWKEYE football game this fall!

Nothing better than the Cy-Hawk rivalry game each fall!

CYCLONE ~~~ # Iowa State University
Posted 6/19/2021 5:51 PM (GMT 0)
Yes Sir, Cyclone.
Taylor's Maid-Rite loose ground beef sandwiches. Delicious. A small family owned business that's been around for generations. They never offered ketchup as a condiment, which worked for me -- I very much dislike the stuff. My Mom actually worked at the Maid-Rite for a while before I was born.

I always root for the Cyclones, except when they're playing one other team. 😉
Posted 6/19/2021 6:27 PM (GMT 0)

Hello, MATTAM ----

Taylor's "Maid-Rite" Diner was founded back in 1928, so they are getting close to the century mark.

I love those ground beef sandwiches ---- the only sandwich I can think of where they hand you a SPOON, when you order one at the diner. Delicious!

Oh yes! Don't forget the pickles!

Taylor's Diner is an Iowa LANDMARK, for sure!

Gotta' love those neighborhood cafes, delis, & diners that serve great food!

Meanwhile, start your countdown to the Cy-Hawk rivalry football game this fall! Can't wait, Mattam !

CYCLONE ~~~ # Iowa State University
Posted 6/27/2021 7:48 PM (GMT 0)
Cyclone--My first full-time job was operating the Kiddie coaster in Kiddieland at Arnold's Park in the summer of '63 at the age of 15...7 days a week from noon to 9PM. Swam in Okoboji, fished and water-skied in the mornings and ran around the amusement park and Roof Garden toll 11Pm every night. My dad was a bartender in the Merry-Go-Inn there. smile

PlatoK

Not sure why my 'signature' isn't being added-I filled it out in my profile.
Posted 6/27/2021 7:54 PM (GMT 0)
Oops I see now my 'signature IS being added. smile Oh well, still learning my way around here.
PlatoK
Posted 6/27/2021 8:20 PM (GMT 0)

Hello, PlatoK ~~~

Definitely know all those landmarks at Lake Okoboji you referenced!

On the way up, we always had a HUGE meal at "Stubbs' House Of Plenty" --- a well-known restaurant in Spencer, Iowa, for families.

I believe the old wooden roller coaster at Arnold's Amusement Park where you worked was one of the oldest historic roller coasters in the Midwest. That roller coaster was getting CREAKY! At the top was the wooden sign that read "The Point Of No Return" !

It's gone now, but I well remember the old FUNHOUSE with the spinning "Sugar Bowl" ride inside ... the huge wooden slides ... and the rotating "Monkey Barrel" ride inside the FUNHOUSE.

Don't forget the famous hand-dipped "Nutty Bar" ice cream treats that are famous there, as well!

I remember playing miniature golf up there ... and a place called "The Emporium" where I got my picture taken in an 1800s pioneer outfit ... there was also a summer tourist place with animals called DEERLAND with a bear that drank bottles of soda pop purchased by tourists ... and we always bought new "Back To School" clothes at a really trendy clothing shop for tourists called "Three Sons" in nearby Milford, Iowa, on the way home from vacation at Lake Okoboji.

My brother and I used to sneak out of The Inn late at night when we were growing up, and go roaming around the lake ... he recently found a picture of us at the lake and sent it to me.

My family always reserved a choice room on the lakefront. We could usually talk my folks into staying "a few more days" ...

I could have lived there all summer, and gone swimming all day ... my hair was sun-bleached blond by the end of summer in those days.

I'm going to get back up there, one of these days!

Summertime!
CYCLONE --- # Iowa State University
Posted 6/27/2021 8:44 PM (GMT 0)
Wow, Cyclone, you've hit on all the ol' landmarks. Skinned my elbows in the Sugar Bowl and the Monkey Barrel many times. My folks had a pre-Crocs plastic sandal shop in the 'Emporium' for several years in the early '80s. Stubbs was our go-to all-you-can-eat buffet for special occasions throughout my childhood. Went to Junior College in Estherville in '65-'67 with one of the 'Three Sons' and their store was still there in Milford (where we lived then) when I went back for a family reunion 2 yrs ago. The entire Iowa Great Lakes area had grown and been considerably gentrified and condo-ized compared to its charming funkiness of decades ago, but still nice. My sister and her husband still have a summer cabin on the shores of Spirit Lake. Memories.
PlatoK
Posted 6/27/2021 8:52 PM (GMT 0)
I've been in the great state of Iowa perhaps a dozen or fewer times in my life. In MY college days, I swam for a small D3 college in Illinois, and we had away meets at Iowa Wesleyan in Mt. Pleasant and at Cornell College in Cornell. Beyond that.....Iowa has always been a place on the map, and not much more.

I've always wondered what deep fried butter tastes like smile
Posted 6/27/2021 9:14 PM (GMT 0)
Hello, PlatoK ----

My younger brother ... always with more of a daredevil streak than me ... decided he wouldn't use the cotton rugs provided to the kids who dared to slide down the varnished wooden slide inside the old FUNHOUSE at Arnold's Amusement Park.

I remember when we got back to The Inn that night, my brother could barely walk ... with "floor burns" all over his legs & feet ---- from sliding down the wooden slide without the cotton rugs provided.

Me --- the "wiser" older brother --- I made sure to use the rug for sliding down!

Thinking back, in this day and age --- I am sure the old wooden FUNHOUSE wouldn't pass safety codes or fire codes these days! On a summer's day, it was packed!

The FUNHOUSE was something that stands out in my memory --- adventures awaited inside the dimly-lit interior. An old clown mannequin was perched above the ticket booth or entrance. There was something mysterious about the FUNHOUSE.

I remember my folks deciding the "rough and tumble" Monkey Barrel, the dizzying Spinning Sugar Bowl, and the towering wooden slide were too adventuresome for my little sister --- but my brother and I definitely have great memories of venturing inside!

Somewhere, I still have my "University of Okoboji" beach towel, purchased at the Three Sons' Store!

I definitely want to get back up to Lake Okoboji! One of the world's rare "blue
lakes" --- left behind by glaciers in the last Ice Age.

The generations of my family have vacationed there for over a CENTURY now!

Here's to a great summer season ahead, PlatoK!

CYCLONE ~~~ # Iowa State University

Post Edited (Cyclone-ISU) : 6/27/2021 3:19:00 PM (GMT-6)

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