OT-- Covid is humdrum-- except when it's not

Mel, while I fear the USA Today article is a bit outdated re the current variants I DO believe that having people vaccinated is valuable to society as a whole by probably reducing the chance of new mutations. By how much who knows? Anyway, I just can't be militant any more about mandates. As Prato pointed out, earlier on the vaccine actually was a great preventative against getting the disease hence also prevention against spreading the disease. The current variants are so contagious that even the fully boosted and vaccinated of us can get it and spread it.

So the big deal for me wanting to push folks into vaccine was I didn't want them to get it and spread it. I still don't but since us vaxxed folks spread it also my previous argument has lost a lot of its shine.

At the end of the day I still wish everyone who can get vaccinated and boosted would do so. However, because of current circumstances I just can't get too militant re those who choose not to do so. I guess I have a little trouble looking TJ in the eye and saying, "you should get vaxxed because it's good for society and may prevent future variants". I felt a lot better before in saying, "you should get vaxxed so you don't spread the virus". Now he can easily reply to me, "hey, you're vaxxed and you can get it and spread it too so get off my back".

I suspect you and I are largely on the same page but perhaps may differ a bit about how much we should be pressing others into getting vaccinated.

Jim

Glad the guy at 1600 is vaxed. Only mild symptoms and the hits that keep coming are the mutations that are here now that need new vaccines to help combat them. My best to all and stay safe.
Jack

"But at the risk of repeating myself, a year ago, the statement made was much truer than it is now with Omicron, and BA5 in particular."

Thank you for your feedback. Varying opinions make the world go round. We learn through hashing out the details. I appreciate all different points of view. It begets freedom, which we all cherish as Americans.

The Danes conducted a medical study with over 6k participants that actually investigated breakthrough infections re: both the Delta and Omicron variants in the fully vaccinated. This was published in 2022. It confirmed that breakthrough infections were certainly not rare and actually moderately common in the vaccinated population. The mRNA vaccine did not stop infections or transmissions. Anecdotally, I was aware of several of these cases myself and read about many in the news. The reports mostly involved celebrities or public figures. (one sentence deleted by moderator)

VAERS data indicated that large numbers of Americans reported developing illnesses - some severe, some not - after accepting the vaccines and/or boosters. Much more than what we have seen with previous flu or other vaccines over the years. This was one red flag factor for many of us who decided not to vax. Plus, we've never seen a vaccine rushed through the process like the mRNA vaccine, which avoided animal studies which caused previous covid vaccines to ALL fail in scientific examinations over the last decade or two due to side effects. There are many questions about whether it causes heart ailments in young people and adversely affects the women menstrual cycles. We will learn more than time marches on. The common cold (covid infection) has been with us forever and I seriously doubt they will ever cure it through a vaccine. If it was easy we'd never have to worry about the sniffles again.

Each of us have to make an individual decision to vax or not based on our own life experiences and health conditions. And, as I stated, I applaud all those who chose to vaccinate. Good for you. But based on what we know today and what we've known for quite some time, forcing those to vaccinate who were opposed to injecting the mRNA vax substance into their bodies strikes me as draconian and totalitarian. I proudly served in the U.S. military to defend my fellow countrymen (and women) against this government overreach and intrusion into our lives. And I pray that we (as a nation) will regain some good sense and balance to protect the rights of all.

Thank you for the civil discussion.

TJ, sorry but I deleted one sentence which strayed into the political realm. The substance/meaning of your post remains. You'll have to agree to disagree with Prato re what the vaccine prevented re previous variants. There were other substantive studies that showed it DID prevent both getting the virus and serious illness in mid-2021. But obviously the Danes disagree... Jim

Post Edited By Moderator (Tudpock18) : 7/22/2022 12:47:25 PM (GMT-7)

I’m coming off my second infection. Our son and his family visited over the past two weeks. One by one we all came down with Covid. First my twice vaccinated and boosted son, then daughter in law, then me, then my wife, and now their son is positive. Our vaccinations and earlier infections did little to stop any infection or transmission. Hopefully they lessened the severity. Both son and daughter in law went to my doc to get paxlovid. My wife and I did not as we were milder symptoms and no fever. From that perspective our prior infection did better than all their multiple vaccinations. My wife and I had a single Jansen vaccination.

Regarding infection and transmission among the vaccinated, we knew from the start it was happening. The trials did not stop 100% and that was well stated. The mid 90% range of prevention first reported was quickly reduced to the 65-75% effectiveness range when the true numbers from the trials were crunched. Even publications like the New York Times clearly reported that. Dr. Fauci was clear from the start that the vaccines could not be 100% effective and publicly stated that the FDA requirement was to be better than 50% effective at stopping infection and transmission. So how could breakthrough cases be a surprise to anyone? (sentence deleted by moderator - politics) Sounds to me like a whole lot of people simply didn’t listen to or read about the facts that were well available to all of us.

Jack, sorry -- I deleted one sentence that didn't really change the substance of your post. We're trying really hard to keep politics out of this thread to keep it open. Jim

Post Edited By Moderator (Tudpock18) : 7/23/2022 12:14:29 PM (GMT-7)

Just something I did, this past week, when meeting with my oncologist ~ who is also an expert in infectious diseases.

Among other topics, we discussed a plan that left my mind a little more at ease ...

If I get corona, confirmed by an at-home test, I am to reach out to him by message through my patient portal & he will immediately place a prescription for PAXLOVID, the anti-viral medication.

This simple & proactive plan is now already in place, if needed, down the road.

This idea may help another reader, so thought I would share it!

Best to each & all ~

CYCLONE ~ # Iowa State University

When I went on Paxlovid, I was told to discontinue both my statin (zocor) and cialis. The Dr. told me there is a LONG list of medication interferences.

Got positive test report on Friday. Symptoms were like a middling bronchitis. Started PAXLOVID Friday. Symptoms 90% better. I have had two vaccines and two boosters. At age 78 and with metastatic PCa, I will take all the help I can get. Good luck to all of us. This thing is likely to be endemic for a long time…. Bill

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/08/03/fauci-not-being-up-to-date-on-covid-vaccines-boosters-means-trouble.html

Fauci seems to argue differently. One of many points he makes: the vaccine/boosters DOES reduce the amount of variant out there and hence reduces the chances of newer variants with more dangerous characteristics.

He did mention there would be a newer vaccine next month more atuned to the latest variant.

As an aside, it appears the main benefit of the vaccine remains: if you get infected, you won't be critically ill/hospitalized. Especially for this group, that should be a no-brainer, but apparently not totally true.

Mel

ShinytopPC said...


I do some shopping but always wear a mask. In my visits to treatment centers and other health care facilities in my area almost everybody is masked. Outside of those places hardly anyone is masked. Pensacola, Florida.

Surprisingly, pretty much the same in NY. In the early days, everyone in NY wore masks anytime they had to be indoors. Today, i would say, i am in the clear minority when i go into a store masked.
IMO, it will only prolong all the surges we are now considering as "new normal"

I liked old normal much better. But time marches on and it always wins. I, like most, have adjusted.
So far, Covid free. Matter of time i guess.

Without getting into the specifics of some of these posts, the facts are that because of the vaccines, far fewer people are dying or need hospital care.

Sorry to hear Glen. It is sad to hear that people are still dying from this disease. I have never been on the fence. At the beginning of Covid, my brother who is a doctor said wear a mask inside when out shopping or dinning. If and when a vaccine comes, take it. My wife and I are fully vaccinated and wear a mask whenever out. So sad to hear of the loss of your good friend. Hopefully science will get the upper hand on Covid. Until then, I will follow the recommendations of my brother and the ones that have worked with diseases for years. My best to you and all.
Jack

I just heard that my oldest friend (in years I've known him) had his 59 year old son die from pulmonary embolism probably due to having had Covid twice and never vaccinated.

I have, so far, avoided contracting any viral infection through all of this but as I am retired it is easy for me to avoid a crowded places. I did continue my college education (graduated last May) and there, as an art student, I spent most of my time in large studio spaces. My wife and I never eat out (even before the pandemic) so I wasn’t in those type of spaces. I’m the grocery shopper and cook of the house and, like I always have, I do that shopping at sunrise when the store is almost empty. My primary social activity is running with others and we never stopped doing that even at the beginning when we received mixed message about whether we are even allowed to be outside with others who were not family members.

I don’t see wearing a mask as any kind of inconvenience and have worn one quite regularly over the past 2 years. To get in to our hospital/clinic, they require masks and I figure that they know more about this issue than I do since they are medical experts which is why I am there in the first place.

The riskiest thing I did during all of this was do a study abroad with other art students in May, about 2 weeks in Venice and Florence, Italy. In order to go I was required, by those other countries I’d travel through and to, to be fully vaccinated and boosted which I did. I wore a mask on all flights, ferries, taxis, trains, and every museum. I came through that experience a richer person, an experience I wouldn’t trade for anything. The vaccine and mask requirements amounted to a nothing burger.

One more thought is that as I look at the resistance from some about government overreach and taking away personal freedoms by requiring masks or vaccines, as a person who was drafted into the military about 50 years ago, I scoff at their faux-outrage when comparing that forced government mandate versus a mask mandate.