Epstein Resigns from Johns Hopkins

Famed prostate cancer pathologist Jonathan Epstein has resigned from Johns Hopkins. He had been placed on administrative leave last year for unspecified reasons. For many years, and for many men on this Board, he was the go to guy for second opinions. Some reports indicate that he conducted as many as 12,000 PCa pathologies over the years… Bill

From what I've read on this forum Epstein brought this on himself. Don't blame the university.

A few years ago I had the occasion to exchange emails with him, he was very open and personable. At that time he said his group was doing at least 10,000 prostate pathologies a year. They also did general pathology as well, not just prostate work.

mattam said...
He may have been forced to resign, but I tend to think he said to hell with it and left on his own. And I don't blame him, with all the wacky stuff going on at universities these days. He will probably be replaced by someone who is completely unqualified. Epstein doesn't need JH, and some center of excellence will likely be thrilled to have him.

i dunno man the charges against him are pretty serious but perhaps he was the focus of a vast conspiracy?

<<< It would be interesting to know the ages of the physicians he bullied. >>>

As Island Time says, I too think it would be interesting to know just who filed the complaint. Look, Epstein, like most of us on the Forum, grew up and trained and worked during an era when it was considered okay -- maybe even proper -- to make colleagues, and especially underlings, feel uncomfortable sometimes. Times do change, and for better or worse a boss can't really do that anymore. Epstein, with his biopsy 2nd opinion service, is accustomed to contradicting other doctors' opinions. He might be even tougher on colleagues working in his own labs. Some doctors probably can't stand it, and may have seething resentments. Well, maybe try establishing yourself in the field instead of crying about it.

He apparently has been cleared of the bladder thing, at least in his view:

*** The hospital’s review, Epstein said, included the case involving the bladder. He said that an outside pathologist “agreed with my diagnosis and concluded that other pathologists would have arrived at the same diagnosis given the limited nature of the specimen, its morphology, and what clinical information I had at the time of the biopsy.”
The review, Epstein said, “concluded that all of these diagnoses were within good practice and what a reasonable pathologist would have diagnosed in the same situation.” ***
Who knows how many patients Epstein may have saved, one way or another, by "pressuring" a pathologist under his tutelage to change a biopsy opinion.

I think Epstein's big mistake was having his wife work in close proximity with him. It seems that the person or people who made the complaint seized on her as an opportunity to "get after" Epstein. As suggested in this most recent article, and based on the information we have so far, I think it Epstein is indeed getting a "hatchet job."

I'm guessing we'll never know the real story

This will all be water under the bridge once Artificial Intelligence becomes the standard for pathology slide readings.

I always believed the online advice/support of one pathologist, like Epstein was the only person you could get an accurate reports, was highly misguided.

There are many very qualified pathologist at the cancer centers of excellence and I believe a lot of health care dollars were wasted on meaningless 2nd opinions,

island time said...
It would be interesting to know the ages of the physicians he bullied.

I’m a member of a private Ferrari forum which also serves as a de facto physicians forum. (It seems there’re are lot of doctors who own Ferraris lol). Anyway…

There’s not a lot of them who’ve worked with him but there’s several who know him….(I was surprised at how many knows Epstein’s wife)…and, of course, they all have their own careers and specialties at other hospitals all over the country. It’s a very entertaining and interesting forum (and funny too! These guys actually have a great sense of humor! Lol) 😆 I like cars so I’m there. It’s very interesting to read what these guys type without filters. (There’s other professions represented there too. Mostly well-heeled…I mean…we’re talking about expensive cars lol).

They talk openly on that forum about their job, careers, patients, their attitudes toward different “types” of patients…(personality types). They talk about their attitudes towards their managements, underlings, …there’s nothing off limits. They all know they’re among friends. They talk about what happens in their operating rooms, etc…with their colleagues, equals, etc…so they say what they mean without fear of reprisal from others. They’re free to discuss any topic. No topic is off limits. They do disagree sometimes but do so as friends. Dr. Epstein has been mentioned in passing. To a man…they’re telling another story as to what happened to Dr. Epstein. (Be clear, I am NOT talking about this forum in “code”. This is one of the best run forums on the internet. That forum is just a different KIND of forum, that’s all. Our primary purpose is CANCER, NOT cars! BIG difference) 😊

Anyway…yes you can’t help but feel for the guy but..at the same time…if he had it coming…he had it coming.

Now that is a very interesting post! about a forum where physicians let their hair down and don't give a hoot. I'm pretty sure I have posted here a few times about some physicians I have worked with who were absolute maniacs. Ego maniacs and just plain old regular maniacs. Based on 36 years in surgery as a CRNA(anesthesia) and many prior years as an RN and Air Force medic and lab tech. But no matter how bad they were, their patients usually thought very highly of them. The only exception was if they ran awry of their doc and wanted another opinion or simply did not want the treatment offered. Then they might see the other side of these guys. But mostly not.

That is not to say they were all like that, not by any means. I'm thinking of a general surgeon(often the worst of the worst) who was not only at least as skilled as any other surgeon, and who not only always treated his patients and every one he worked with with kindness and respect, but also went on a medical mission with me to Ecuador. And many other missions without me. Where for a week or more, he would work all day long(12 hours+) diagnosing and operating on the most pitiful people who had zero insurance AND could not pay him a dime or do anything else for him, He even had to pay his own way there and all other expenses as well as his share of the cost of the medications. And thru it all, here or there, he was always pleasant and even loving to all.

Currently, I work with a retired pediatrician 1 day a week with Habitat for Humanity. I remember working some with him years ago, and I remember him always being very pleasant as well as more than competent. Based on what I see of him at Habitat, I now think of him as one of the finest human beings I have had the pleasure of knowing. I don't know how you could beat either one of these guys, and a few others I could name. Still, there are a whole bunch of the other kind out there.

So, did Epstein "have it coming"? Quite possibly. Or, maybe he is unjustly persecuted. I doubt we will ever know the truth.

Post Edited (BillyBob@388) : 2/27/2024 5:17:01 PM (GMT-8)

Historically, institutions have worked to protect individuals who generate a lot of revenue. Epstein's operation must generate a great deal of cash for JH. Which makes me think that, if JH cut ties with Epstein, they did not do it lightly.

On another subject brought up here, I had a conversation with a radiologist about a year ago, and asked if AI would revolutionize radiology. He said it already has, and he no longer has a purpose in reading scans, since the machines do it so well. He is retraining in sports medicine.

Post Edited (fiddlecanoe) : 2/28/2024 8:40:45 AM (GMT-8)

duke48
Posts : 208
Posted 2/24/2024 8:35 AM (GMT -8)
From what I've read on this forum Epstein brought this on himself. Don't blame the university.

What an ignorant post. You know nothing of what happened with Epstein and this situation to make any sort of a judgement one way other about this.

How simple.