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Posted 9/8/2006 4:10 AM (GMT 0)
I have a few questions for you men.

First I will tell you about my hubby.

 My hubby had his prostate out on May 23rd. He had the robot surgery. about a month after his surgery I found your site and saw alot of men were told to take vigara or the other meds to help heal faster and get the length back. I told hubby about it and talked to his DR.on the first check up and he said here I will give ya a few samples if you want to try but I think it is too early but seeing you are not having any leaking problem go ahead and try if you want. He gave him the 3 different ones.

  Well for some reason he doesn't want to even take them very much. He has tried them with no luck afew times . It took like over 2 hours for the viagara to even look like it might work then he  gives up and goes to sleep. Is it normal to take that long for it to work?  He was told that they work the best on empty tumy but he eats anyways before he takes them it is like he doesn't want them to work. I don't understand it at all. To me it seams like he has no desire to have sex or anything. I have tried talking to him about what he is feeling but no luck with that. This is strange to me because before he wanted it all the time. Now nothing.

Is this normal for any of you not to have any desire for sex? Or not to want to take the meds.  I thought ok maybe he has a problem not wanting sex that why he wasn't taking the meds so I said please take them for you for your healing. That didn't work either. I don't want to hound him or anything so trying not to say too much anymore.

 I hope some one has ideas or knows maybe what is going on with my hubby.

Thanks to you all God bless

PR

Posted 9/8/2006 9:42 AM (GMT 0)
PR,

I'm not a guy, but one of the wives, but I'm just wondering if it couldn't be a subconscious feeling that he might hurt himself somehow if he has sex.  I think he needs to talk to his urologist about this and be reassured that he will not do harm to himself by having sex again.

Posted 9/8/2006 2:39 PM (GMT 0)
PR

Hi. I have not had my surgery yet but I have been using ED medication for over a year now. My doctor prescribed Lavetra which works quite well. Don't know how your husband is using these but you don't automatically get an erection because you took a pill. You (he) needs stimulation for these products to work. Lavetra usually kicks in within an hour. I think he may be a little optomistic for these to work so soon. After reading many posts the nerve endings are still not recovered yet from surgery. But he should maintain a regiman of these pills to promote blood flow to the penis.

Hope that helps

Daveed

If I said anything wrong I defer to Swimom for her expertise.

Posted 9/9/2006 12:27 AM (GMT 0)

Daveed,

 Thanks for your reply. He knew he had to have some stimulation for it to work but after 2 hours of it ya get tired if you knw what I mean. So you think almost 4 months is too early to expect it to work?

  I try to get him to take them for the blood flow but just doesn't seam to want to do it. Like I said before I do not want to push him into it Just didn't know if anyone else is going thru something like this or what he might be thinking.

Thanks God bless

Posted 9/9/2006 12:31 AM (GMT 0)
Ellen,
I wish I knew if that was what he is thinking. I do not think he will talk to his DR I doubt it. I don't want to bring it up to the Dr. I think he needs to himself. Just so darn confusing.
What it seams to me most of the post I have read from the men they want it back working as soon as they can and seam to want to do what it takes to get it back. And they say women are confusing LOL
PR
Posted 9/9/2006 1:11 AM (GMT 0)
PR,

The purpose in early stimulation and pharmacologocal intervention isn't necessarily to achieve intercourse. First and foremost prevention of atrophy and permanent severe venous leakage is a goal. The less stimulation the more atrophy. Early return to active intimacy with or without intercourse will benefit his (and your) emotional well being. I'm sure he realizes this.

PDE5 drugs are proving to help prevent some of the of hypoxic damage caused by surgical procedures themselves. By providing a means of stimulation, less remodling of the cavernous tissues means better response to medications. It's a long and complicated process to explain but it gets down to, no matter how a man winds up gaining function...it'll be healthier if he did some rehab from the start. Even for those men who have lost both nerves, rehab prevents hypoxic damage to a great extent.

The average man sees only minor improvements in the first 6-9 months following surgery. Things improve from there for up to 2 years but, most do end up with less perfect function than they had to begin with. Comorbid conditions and age also play a role. If he had very good function the chances are good he'll regain much of it back. His proactive intervention not only feeds his self esteem, it does improve his potential over doing nothing. The ole use or use it phrase has more than one meaning!

Hubby sounds like he's having some anxiety over his diagnosis and treatment. It's normal. Not fun but normal none the less. He really has to want to move forward before he can move forward. If he thinks he has stress now, he hopefully understands the remifications of choosing to do nothing. It certainly isn't too late to begin using a dose of something every night. In fact it isn't unusual to begin meds at 6 months. A lot of Docs will wait that long but more and more are beginning much sooner these days.
Let him know it isn't too late. He in fact, may actually respond better now than he did before. Try adding arginine twice a day. I believe he wil be suprised at what will happen over the next few months...but he has to be committed to being well again.

Good Luck my dear, swim
Posted 9/9/2006 7:38 AM (GMT 0)

PR,

I had my surgery August 8th, 2006.  I too had read about guys starting Viagra and using a pump as soon as the catheter came out.  My doc, before surgery, reassured me that they would work aggressively with me to regain my ability to have an erection.  When my catheter came out he said OK I will see you in November!  I was surprised and asked if I should start taking ED drugs now to help.  He said he has not seen any studies that has convinced him that it helps regain function any sooner, but if I wanted to then I could.

I had started taking Cialis a couple of months before surgery.  I could acheive an erection within 1/2 hour.  More importantly, I could then sustain for much longer which was the reason I started to take them.  It also worked well for up to a week for me and Viagra would actually last for 3 days, so I was just starting to have ED concerns and pills worked great. 

After the catheter was removed (11 days after surgery) I took Cialis 3 days later.  I felt no effect at all until about 8 hours later when I felt some familiar tingling in the groin area.  This only resulted in some lengthening (which I was happy for at least something).  I took the pill again in 3 days like prescribed and then another 3 days.  I saw no additional benefit yet, so I stopped.  It did seem to help my desire but of couse I was nowhere close to an erection.  I do not know about other experiences but the urethra and the penis tissue were still rather sore.  I am now close to 5 weeks post surgery and continure to be sore at times along the urethra and bladder.  Still, I did notice after a week stopping the Cialis less desire and penis lengthening.  Of course, some depression will play a role of less desire because I do miss how sexually active we were prior to surgery and my fear of not being able to make love to my wife like I use too.  This is very, very hard at times but I must be patient like swimom and my doc said, usually no signs of recovery until 6 months.

There are other creative things to do while waiting to recover (I hear and read on this forum) but to be honest I am just now starting to feel good enough to explore this and I am going to start to take Cialis again.  I assume injections will be part of the recovery as well, but am not sure when my urologist will start recommending.  I fight the depression and discouragement as I plan to try what I can to help with recovery by following my docs recommendations and others on this forum, but there is not much discussion about the ED experiences over the months following surgery which of course is a very personal subject.  I am young (I think) so I hope that will help with my recovery and I will share on this forum so at least others will know.  This is the third hurtle to over come and I feel will be my biggest challenge.  First was surgery (good pathology report), then the bladder....only had dribbles after the catheter came out and stopped wearing any pads after 31/2 weeks (yea!) but still have stress induced leakage, and now the impotence issue.  I guess I actuallly am ahead of schedule compare to others so I should (and am) thankful.

Your husband needs to know not to expect much until 6 months and it can be depressing for sure but maybe try the different types of ED pills consistently and see which one works best.  It is very strange for me not to get an erection from my wife's loving touches and first I thought it would be better if she did not, so I wouldn't get frustrated, but it does still feel good and important and still intimate.  I wish I could tell you how to get him to open up to you, but don't give up on him.  He may even need to see a counselor along with his urologist?  At least you could ask the urologist yourself as he cannot possibly be the first man after this type of surgery to respond this way.  I wish you the best.

Michael

Posted 9/9/2006 3:57 PM (GMT 0)
Michael,

You're going to hate me for saying this ...But what, no early intervention? He wants you to wait till November? Your Phyisician does not dictate how actively you persue rehabilitation...YOU DO! That Doc isn't going to do a darned thing that you don't initiate first...that's his managed care mentality! The fewer scripts he writes, the bigger his profits. If the man hasn't read confirmng studies it's because he's not reading at all. Good surgeons do great surgery...the rest is patient driven I'm afraid.

It's still very early in the game. Many men will not take anything for the first month or so, it's all good. I'm afraid you haven't the whole idea of what PDE5 drugs are actually meant to accomplish in the early stage however. Your goal is to spare the integrity of the cavernosal tissues by encouraging more oxygenated blood to enter the penis. Even a half of a Cialis should accomplish this. For some men, assisted errections happen early. For some it's on and off before they get better and for others, they may not regain errections without injections or a VED. Please don't misunderstand that 6 months is not a given Michael. Average is said to be 6 months before improvement is seen. You are 41...to the left of the median!

PS...the twinges? That's a very good sign that nerves are there...now encourage them buggers to regenerate themselves! And have fun doing it!
I dearly wish the best for all of you. After dealing with a very saddened man for 10 years, I hope and pray no man ever puts himself through the same torture. Ya wanna talk about saints....I know that bought me a better seat for the ride someday!! MY suggestion Michael.....stop worrying and just enjoy your imagination. Your new normal will settle right in soon. At 41 I think you may be worried way too much too early. Paul was 38 and thought his life was over. Well, he's 49 now and still here, so enjoy...ya got a lot of life left!

By being active you do a few things. One, you find wonderful ways to maintain that much needed physical bond with the woman who worries, loves and misses the second half of her heart...you!. Two, it releases those feel good chemicals so you both sleep better an wake up with a smile! Three, it encourages the body to react to stimuli. Besides, rehab is rehab. How oftn do ya get to have such a good time doing it?

For women who have radical hysterectomies, partial nerve recovery is seen between 2 and 3 years post-op so, 6 months to a year isn't that bad sounding IMHO. Women never recover full nerve function. Thankfully, Men do keep full sensation. Just thought I'd throw in a comparison.

I will remind everyone that there are men in here who have had amazingly short recovery times. Waiting until discomfort passes to initiate sex is fine. Hell, I wouldn't want to have painful sex...unless I was into that of course!
Get some L-Arginine, it's cheaper, and take 500 to 1000 of that twice a day. It'll help as much as Cialis will as a protectant and it does promote healing quite well. You'll be happier once that initial anxiety passes. Just remember, disappointment occurs only if you don't jump in and just let life happen! Love making is not about having an erection. That'll happen one way or another. If not right away, soon. Keeping that uninhibited chemistry between two people is an amazing healer. Try it...I think you will be suprised :>)
Posted 9/9/2006 5:45 PM (GMT 0)
OK, I have a few questions too. Is it or is it not true that even without erection, sensation and orgasm can still be achieved. I know that the books say "Yes", but is there any personal experience out there?

Also, Swimom.. What is L-Arginine?
Posted 9/9/2006 6:39 PM (GMT 0)
Good question Kate!! I'm looking for the reply to those questions too!!
Posted 9/9/2006 6:55 PM (GMT 0)

We are finding that sexual function, while not yet sufficient for intercourse, is returning slowly.   From what I have read, it is a good thing to rehabilitate sexual function early using the PDE5 drugs (Viagra, Cialis, Levitra).

My urologist suggested beginning this therapy, at least twice a week, beginning at two months post-surgery. She said that the drugs (I'm using Levitra) improve oxygenation, which helps in the eventual return of full sexual functioning. 

To tell you the truth, it is good to be physically close to my wife, despite the fact that intercourse is not possible yet.  And psychologically it helps me immensely to know that prostate cancer doesn't mean the end of sexual intimacy.

Take care and hang in there.

Posted 9/10/2006 1:39 AM (GMT 0)
Kate,
Hi I can tell you that one of the times my hubby took the meds he did not have an erection but he did have an orgasm. Hubby said he does have sensation everything felt good but just can't have an erection to go with it.
The one problem I see is he just doesn't have any sexual desire.
Posted 9/10/2006 2:00 AM (GMT 0)
To all that have replyed so far
Thanks so much for replying. I am trying so hard to understand what he is going thru. Trying to find ways to help him if I can with out pushing. I just am having hard time with him not taking the meds if it will help in the healing. I told him tonight that I have been reading on here that it would really be best in his healing if he would take the meds at least a few times a week. I know you said 2 x a day I didn't dare tell him that. LOL He didn't say a thing.
He is 54 yr old and did have some ED problems before the PC. He treid Vigara then a couple of times with no luck. It might be because he isn't taking on empty stomach. Not sure. He didn 't have the meds but a week before surgery so didn't have much time to test them out then.
The one hard thing for me now is he has no sexual desire at all. He might say a few things that makes me think ok he does have desire but it is just saying stuff and that is it. Just a few months before all this that desire was fine now nill. I need to have some kind of intimacy I am not expecting to have intercourse. I just feel left out trying to figure what on earth he is feeling and maybe scared of.
Well again thanks to each of you that have replyed I hope all the replys that have been sent to me will also help someone else out.
thanks
PR
Posted 9/10/2006 2:20 AM (GMT 0)

Swimom,

Your comments are always welcome.  Thanks, I will take an active part myself with the healing process instead of waiting until November!  My question to others is when does the soreness in the urethra and bladder go away?  I sometimes wonder if I have a bladder infection developing or if this is normal still 5 weeks post?  Frequent urination and painful at times. I get my first PSA next week and will ask if they can do a urine test too.  Just looking forward to 6 weeks post so I can resume "normal" activities as far as excercise.

Yes, you can have an orgasm without an erection.  It is different but pleasurable.  It also takes much longer to achieve but you can.  No erection and no ejaculate but similar (not as strong) intensity.  I notice better results as kegel muscle get stronger again so many benefits from the exercise.  We will see what happens and I'll let you know about my first post PSA test.

Michael

Posted 9/10/2006 4:19 AM (GMT 0)
Ya'll do know kegals is a couples excersise? Strengthens the pelvic floor, helps prevent incontinence AND increases blood flow to the genitals of both men and women. Now get busy.. hollld it... 1-2-3-4-5.. and relax!

L-Arginine...a precursor to nitric oxide. It enhances the availability of NO which relaxes the muscles surrounding blood vessels going to the penis. Blood vessels in the penis dilate, filling the penis, improving erections ....How's that for a quick explination? It's action is different than Viagra in that Viagra blocks the enzyme (PDE5) action that breaks down NO. L-Arginine results may be seen within a few weeks of its use...it at least improves blood flow and that's our goal.

Healing bodies use up more of its L-Arginine supply. NOTE: I always advocate everyone seek advise of a medical professional before trying any supplement. People with renal or liver problems and those with herpes for example, should not use L-Arginine. Those with a history of heart attack should seek advise before statring L-Arginine. Those who have had a recent heart attack should not use it. In higher doses it can cause stomach upset.
To date Paul has noted no side effects of using 1000 mg twice a day.
PS: His only medication is Lisinipril.

PR,
I did say L-Arginine is twice a day but not the oral meds. Arginine has a very short half-life. Hope I didn't confuse you on that. Hubby may benefit from even a half a Viagra 2-3 times a week but he has to want to. I feel for you. I understand..believe me, I know. I also know that things can get back to a healthy, active and loving intimate relationship. Hopefully with your patience and help it will happen soon. Oral meds may not be what ultimately helps him but there are ways. I hope he gets past this rough period and realizes what he's missing. Good Luck to you both, Swim
Posted 9/11/2006 10:39 PM (GMT 0)
Ah if your looking toward a study My Doctor was involved in one using Viagra although he thought the other drugs on the market would do as well after one year of using the pill once a day ( in smaller doses ) the study showed to be seven times more effective in those using the drug than those using a sugar pill now thats a fairly good result.
I was told stimulation was also required self or partnered in the recovery process if I am any indication as to the point of your question desire had always been there albet not always noticable I was not able to take the Viagra as it made my blood pressure drop something to be careful of but successful enough not to require any.


54 gleason 6 PSA ? next week
City of Hope 4/29-06'
Posted 9/12/2006 1:51 AM (GMT 0)
Swimom,
What is L-Arginine ? i have never heard of it before. Is it something you have to get from DR or is it over the counter? How does it work by that I mean does it also need stimulation?. Do you use it with viagra or use it alone? Alos in your reply you use the letters NO what does that mean?
Sorry so many questions.
I did talk to hubby the other night about what you all have been saying. He wanted to know is the viagra taking so long to work on others? Like I said befoe it was about 3 hours after taking and lots of attention that is started to do anything by then he said I am tired. He did kinda of admitted to me he doesn't have any desire any more. I think he is discouraged that it does take so long for it to work so doesn't want to bother and be disapointed. Just my thoughts.
Thanks
PR
Posted 9/12/2006 1:27 PM (GMT 0)
Michael,

I was just talking with Jeff and asked him about the pain you are having. he said that he sometimes has pain when he urinates and he did have a little pain when he had a climax. he said he notices a difference when he drinks too much coffee. I hope that issue works itself out for you. that's a good idea to ask your doctor about it.

PR,

I'm sorry that your husband is going through such a tough time. It sounds like he expects an instant reaction to the Viagra, but my understanding is that it doesn't work that way when taking it for PC recovery. my husband had a climax 10 days after surgery without an erection. I didn't realize it was even happening until he made the sounds and then said that is what happened. it was during manual/oral stimulation. it does feel strange discussing our sex lives here but it's a normal part of this whole recovery. I have to keep reminding Jeff to take his medication (Cialis) even though he's not getting an instant erection because it is important for the healing process. to be honest, I was hoping for a break from sex because my drive is not very strong, but Jeff is not allowing that. :)

kat
Posted 9/12/2006 7:07 PM (GMT 0)
Hi PR Your husband has the classic lose of libido, happens to a lot of men after Pca surgery. I for one lost mine, I have no interest in sex. I have sex to please my wife. I use the vacuum pump so no problem having an erection, guaranteed every time. The strange thing is I enjoy having sex, but up to the point of doing it to please my wife, I have no interest, not sure you will understand this. Take care.
Posted 9/12/2006 7:23 PM (GMT 0)
Slls,
Sex drive probably returns but if it doesn't, go see about at least a homeopathic remedy. Lycopodium, or one of several others may prove quite helpful. At least you realize intimacy isn't lost. Use it or lose it also applies to the intimate part of the relatioship as well as the physical. Hope things improve for you soon. Not fair, not fair! Swim
Posted 9/12/2006 9:45 PM (GMT 0)
Hi Swimom
Plan to do nothing, can’t miss what you don’t want, I really like the way it is. Has a strong sex drive all my life, at times it was too consuming. Take care
Posted 9/13/2006 2:14 AM (GMT 0)
Slls,

Ouch! I have virtually nothng to say except I am sorry any man or woman would think a relationship could ever remain solid under the circumstances you describe.
Posted 9/13/2006 10:41 PM (GMT 0)
swimom You don't know me LOL. Take care
Posted 9/17/2006 6:51 PM (GMT 0)

PR

This is really good info:

Vibrance Network.   (his and her health)

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