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Posted 2/16/2011 4:57 AM (GMT 0)
There have been a lot of discussions on using pomegranite on this forum. This was just posted on HealthBoards by a very knowledgable poster.

A group led by highly respected researcher Dr. Michael A. Carducci of Johns Hopkins' famed prostate cancer research group conducted a Phase II study using one of the most studied brands of pomegranate extract (POMx).

This does not mean that pomegranate juice or extract are a substitute for therapy when therapy is needed. But it goes a long way toward proving that pomegranate can be an important element in our approaches to countering prostate cancer.

I'm delighted with this independent confirmation by a highly respected institution and principal investigator of a substantial impact of pomegranate on prostate cancer!

Words are just not sufficient to convey the importance of this confirming study to the prostate cancer community or to relay the excitement in this wonderful news!
Posted 2/16/2011 5:27 AM (GMT 0)
That's great news John.

At last, something that I like a lot (the juice) might actually be good for me! yeah
Posted 2/16/2011 5:39 AM (GMT 0)
Is it possible?? Can a $4 bottle of pomegranate juice provide more benefit than an $80,000 treatment with Provenge ??

One thing is for sure, you better get down to your health-food store early tomorrow before the shelves are emptied...

I would like nothing better than to trade in my Eligard for POMx...That's great news John..

www.pompills.com/pills/buy_pills.aspx

"POM Wonderful is a global brand committed to innovation and wellness. We grow and market pomegranates and pomegranate-based products that are healthy, honest and essential to the well-being of humankind.

Ours is the only company that grows, harvests, processes and ships our own pomegranates. Plus, we’re the only pomegranate company that has provided over $34M in funding to support scientific research on Wonderful variety pomegranate products at top institutions around the globe."

Post Edited (Fairwind) : 2/15/2011 10:55:23 PM (GMT-7)

Posted 2/16/2011 5:39 AM (GMT 0)
let's see how the naysayers come at this.  btw, John your links aren't working for me.  do you have the link to the story?

ed

 

Posted 2/16/2011 7:25 AM (GMT 0)
Phase III Clinical Trial on this is on-going:

Pomegranate Extract in Treating Patients With Rising Prostate-Specific Antigen Levels After Surgery or Radiation Therapy for Localized Prostate Cancer

This study is currently recruiting participants.
Verified by National Cancer Institute (NCI),
History of Changes:
First Received: June 13, 2006 Last Updated: July 22, 2009

Sponsor:
Roll International Corporation
Collaborator: National Cancer Institute (NCI)
Information provided by: National Cancer Institute (NCI)
ClinicalTrials.gov Identifier: NCT00336934

Purpose

RATIONALE: Pomegranate extract may keep prostate cancer from growing in patients with rising prostate- specific antigen (PSA) levels after surgery or radiation therapy for localized prostate cancer.

PURPOSE: This randomized phase III trial is studying how well pomegranate extract works in treating patients with rising PSA levels after surgery or radiation therapy for localized prostate cancer.
Condition: Prostate Cancer
Intervention: Dietary Supplement: pomegranate juice Other: placebo
Phase: Phase III
Study Type: Interventional
Study Design: Allocation: Randomized Control: Placebo Control Masking: Double-Blind
Primary Purpose: Treatment

Official Title:
A Randomized, Double-Blind, Placebo-Controlled Study of The Effects of Pomegranate Extract On Rising Prostate-Specific Antigen Levels In Men Following Primary Therapy
Posted 2/16/2011 7:29 AM (GMT 0)
Another Phase II Clinical Trial:

A Study Of the Effectiveness Of Pomegranate Pills in Men With Prostate Cancer Before Prostatectomy
This study is currently recruiting participants.

Study NCT00719030

Information provided by University of California, Los Angeles

First Received: July 15, 2008 Last Updated: May 24, 2010
Posted 2/16/2011 8:05 AM (GMT 0)
As a sort of "nay-sayer" when it comes to magic diets and supplements. I shall respond to this scientifically.

I welcome this news, based as it is on a clinical trial to try and repeat the findings of earlier trials that had tested the original claim.
Pity it looks like it only covered about 38 people for the full 18 months. A bigger group would be more use.

If a glass of juice a day can be shown to help slow down anything going wrong inside me I would be an idiot to ignore it. My other problem is that I don't like pomegranate juice, but I quite like fresh pomegranate when it's not cold weather, so it would be good to know whether eating the fruit too was beneficial. The fruit is also much easier to find where I live. I knock the seeds out into a bowl which I put in the refrigerator and I eat them a few at a time during the course of the day.

(The study of the effect of pills on men before prostatectomy will be relevant for others)

I hope all these studies cover the possibility that something that can be shown to reduce PSA levels or doubling time may not neccessarily be stopping the cancer growing or spreading as well

Alf
Posted 2/16/2011 9:13 AM (GMT 0)
Hello All,

I found the actual abstract link on the ASCO site:
http://www.asco.org/ASCOv2/Meetings/Abstracts?&vmview=abst_detail_view&confid=104&abstractid=72101


pasayten
Posted 2/16/2011 10:47 AM (GMT 0)
I note that the median age of the study group was 74.5!! I wonder what the actual ages were. I don't want to sound unfair to the older guys, but, as one of the younger ones here at dx, I feel that things that help those in their 40s and 50s keep their PSA etc down sound like they would have a bigger effect for more people and for longer.

Alf
Posted 2/16/2011 12:06 PM (GMT 0)
Hi guys,

I find this most interesting but what it lacks in the data is the % content of the actual Pomegranite juice in the juice that you buy. Here in the UK if i buy a carton of the juice in the supermarket, the actual Pomegranite juice content is usually only 17 % but by taking the time to read the content labels there are a few at 37% content. When we go on holiday to Turkey it is available at the full 100% so i imagine it is down to how local the pomegranite is to the juicing plant.

Take care, Bob.
Posted 2/16/2011 2:13 PM (GMT 0)
I read Mike's assesment of this study over at Prostate Cancer Info. Link.  He did not "Poo - Poo" the study.  Usually he knocks everything down as a pre-mature study.  This one he did not.  If it passes "mustard" with him, I tend to believe it more.  There have been numerous studies about this over the years.  I think the majority of the evidence is in favor of it having some effect on the majority of people.  I did not say "everyone."  However, it is enough that I am going to ask my brother to start taking it daily.  He has not been dx. yet, but is 49 and has a PSA of 1.3  With basically every man in my family having it, he probably already does.

I'm in.....

Dx @ 42 years old on 4/2008
Gleason 6 (50 Point Biopsy) (6 Cores positive - Small Focus Each)
open RP 10/08  Johns Hopkins  Dr. Partin
pT2 Organ Confined Gleason 6 (tertiary score 0)
PSA Since Surgery
1/15/2009 (3 Month) <.1
10/15/2009 (1 Year) <.1
10/15/2010 (2 Year) <0.03
02/11/2011 (2.3 Year) <0.03 (Impromptu done by GP at a physical)
10/15/2011 (3 Year) -

Posted 2/16/2011 2:14 PM (GMT 0)
Bob,

I do not know if you folks have it in your country, but I favor 100% pure Pomegrante Juice by Knudsen Juice Company.  I do not work for them or have any fiduciary/financial affiliation.  Seems like good info in study.

http://www.rwknudsenfamily.com/

 

Posted 2/16/2011 3:03 PM (GMT 0)
 

All I know is I started taking the Pom extract a few months ago and my last PSA for the first time showed only a slight increase.  My oncologist felt the PSA was slowing down.  So I will try anything that will not hurt me.

Jerry1 

Posted 2/16/2011 3:31 PM (GMT 0)
 >>My other problem is that I don't like pomegranate juice, but I quite like fresh pomegranate when it's not cold weather, so it would be good to know whether eating the fruit too was beneficial. The fruit is also much easier to find where I live<<

if you read the OP it says the POMx pills work equally as well.  for the umpteenth time i have a subscription for the 1000 mg POMx pills.  they send me 90 pills every 90 days and my credit card is billed like $28 a month.  only a flat-earther, imo, would ignore the potential benefit of pomegranate at this point.

ed

Posted 2/16/2011 3:44 PM (GMT 0)
As I mentioned in my prior posts, there are a number of clinical trials on-going with pomegranate. The one I am most interested and eagerly waiting for is the Phase III double blind randomized trial.

I too worry that even if PSADT lengthens, it is really not slowing down PC as there may be pomegranate refractory PC, just like with Hormone therapy. But hopefully a combination therapy of pomegranate, hormone, etc. would make PC a chronic illness like combination drugs do to HIV?
Posted 2/16/2011 4:25 PM (GMT 0)
John T - great news & thanks for sharing.

Did the article specify what the daily dose was? Presumably the study used supplements rather than real juice since I cant imagine how with real juice you could conceal from people whether they got the juice or a placebo. The taste difference would be obvious.

thanks
Posted 2/16/2011 4:32 PM (GMT 0)
proscapt, the POMx website lists their extract (the same one used in the trial) as 1000mg capsule. Cost wise, it figures at $1.00 per day. There's cheaper capsules available, but at lower strengths, so you would have to take multi capsules daily to get up to the 1000mg. I have been looking other places for anything cheaper in some kind of reasonable dose, where I am not swallowing 6 capsules to get the dose, but so far haven't turned up anything in my first look for it.
Posted 2/16/2011 4:58 PM (GMT 0)
As a natural-born cynic and nay-sayer, I have to agree with English Alf on this one..Should pomegranate prove to be beneficial in the treatment (or prevention) of PC, there are a few things that muddy the water in my opinion..

Pom Wonderful has provided $34M to "several major research institutions" to study their product..One of those institutions has returned a very favorable report...I learned a long time ago "Money Talks"..I have a lot more faith in studies where the researchers are not being paid by the company that makes the product under study. Another caution light, pomegranate juice or extracts in general were NOT endorsed, only POMx products by name were given the favorable endorsement..

People have been consuming pomegranate's for 2000 or more years..You would think by now that any large and measurable health benefit, especially prostate health benefit would, be very well known, beyond any argument or dispute and not needing $34M to prime the pump....

I also find it interesting that in my local COSCO store, there are two skids of 100% pomegranate juice prominently displayed...Are we witnessing a major PC breakthrough or are we witnessing a major marketing effort by the Pomegranate Growers Association? Time will tell..Drinking a couple of glasses of pomegranate juice every day while all this is sorted out certainly won't hurt you and clamping PSA is not a bad thing either...A few years ago, Saw Palmetto was getting these same reviews..

Now remember guys, this is just a personal opinion from an admitted cynic and pessimist..No need to delete this post...
Posted 2/16/2011 5:05 PM (GMT 0)
Well said, Fairwind, I won't add a thing to your post, except that I agree with you on this. To the other's, if it tastes good, drink it, its just another juice and if you like it, no harm - no foul.
Posted 2/16/2011 5:06 PM (GMT 0)
A small nay-saying comment. Looking at the abstract posted by pasayten, if that is the study that JohnT was mentioning, this is not a controlled study, because there was no control group. The two groups are two different doses, and the doubling time is compared to that in a baseline period prior to starting the drug. They seem to be looking for a dose-response--with most drugs, as you increase the dose, the effect increases. There was no difference between the two doses (1 gm/day vs 3 gm/day), but both had a difference from the baseline. So this study is randomized, but not controlled. So this is not level 1 evidence.

On the other hand, John T mentioned patients being randomized to a placebo. So maybe JohnT and pasayten are talking about two different studies. So, it would be good good if JohnT posted a working link to the the abstract from this study. None of the links on the original post work.
Posted 2/16/2011 5:16 PM (GMT 0)
For any study like this to be convincing to me, I would have to see the details, as the devil is in the detail. I would want to see a breakdown of each man in the study. His age, a chrnology of his PSA - before, during, and after the study. I would want to his staging, his gleason, I would want to know all about his primary and secondary treatments if needed.

When you look at a study like this, or the others, its all blended together, and the averages and percentages just become exactly that, a number on a piece of paper.

There still isn't 100% proof that the "P" juice is effective. But no harm in drinking expensive (and foul tasting in my personal opinion) juice if that is what you want to do. Certainly isn't anything in it to harm a person, the fruit has been harvested and used for thousands of years.

David in SC
Posted 2/16/2011 5:16 PM (GMT 0)
you guys wait until you get the "conclusive" proof you need, which i doubt happens in my lifetime.  i'll continue to wash down my 1000 mg POMx pill every morning with two ounces of cold water blended with 3/4 teaspoon of OPCxtra.

ed

 

Posted 2/16/2011 5:21 PM (GMT 0)
Ed, you seem to have trouble accepting that not every one buys into the great Pom debate. Doesn't make either side right or wrong, dumb or smart. Just another of a thousand and one personal decision each of us makes in our lives..

You said way above in this thread, and I quote, 'let's see how the naysayers come at this"

That tells me that you are pre-disposed to not wanting to hear opinions that differ from yours. This place is a place of opinions, on all kinds of things. No one has to agree with anyone.

David in SC
Posted 2/16/2011 5:29 PM (GMT 0)
i wonder how many will rush to the store today but not admit it cool ?

ed

Posted 2/16/2011 5:37 PM (GMT 0)
I am not rushing to the store. I alternate cherry and a pomgranite juice every morning (replaces my much-missed orange juice), but I am not going to toss money on supplements unless I know they will help. The pockets here are not deep.

I would expect that there is some value to pomgranite as there is in other fruits. Beyond that ...

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