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Posted 8/7/2011 1:58 AM (GMT 0)

Purgatory said...
i don't, as you put it, "thrive" on any of it one way or the other. too often, some choose to present questionable and at the least, subjective material as if it were a fact carved in stone. others, by implication, make it sound like one is lesser in knowledge or intelligence, if they choose a different path, or if they choose not to follow what is stated.

David, you must have read the book "Anticancer:  A New Way of Life," by the recently departed Dr David Servan-Schreiber.  It sounds like the passage below is what you were thinking of...(I also love this passage):

 

Casey59 said...

Here's an outstanding recommendation:  Anticancer:  A New Way of Life, by David Servan-Schreiber, M.D., Ph.D.

Lot's of learnings to be gathered and adopted by reading this book for living longer & more healthy lives.

In one of my favorite stories the author tells reveals much about how people have their heads in the sand about diet, exercise, and other lifestyle modifications/integrative therapies.  [underlining added by me for emphasis]  It starts by the author telling about some of the lifestyle modification programs:

...By participating in certain programs...patients try to take charge of their cancer, to learn to live in greater harmony with their bodies and their past, to seek peace of mind through yoga and meditation, to choose foods that fight cancer while avoiding those that promote its development.  Their case histories show that they live two or three times longer than the average person with the same cancer at the same stage of development.

An oncologist friend at the University of Pittsburgh, whom I told about these figures, objected:  "These aren't ordinary patients.  They're better educated, more motivated, and in better health.  The fact that they live longer doesn't prove anything."  But that is precisely the point:  If patients are better informed about their disease, if they look after body and mind, and if they are given what they need to improve their health, then they can mobilize the body's vital functions to fight cancer.  They live better and for longer.

 

I highly recommend this book.

I wrote this post to rcroller several months ago when he was looking for reading material...here's the LINK to that thread.

The book is excellent...I recommend it to all...

 

 

 

Posted 8/7/2011 2:30 AM (GMT 0)
Sorry, Casey, certainly aware of that book, but have never read it.

Billy Mac - you made a good point(s) as well in my opinion. I don't have any problem with these contreversial subjects, i.e. POM, certain supplements. I am only bothered when people make hard fast unchangable opinions based on one study or another.

The Vit D is a good example. Until I was specifically tested earlier this year for my level, I had never given it a thought in my life. It was the same oncology dietician that got me to thinking about it, then I went to my GP. When tested, I was very deficient, not surprising that I never drink milk, avoid most dairy by choice (not health reasons), and have spent a lifetime of avoiding direct exposure to the sun, as I am prone to heat stroke and easily burn in the sun. (The plus side of sun avoidence, is that I am almost free of wrinkles). My point, when I was shown my D number, I consented under the directiTon of my GP to get on the Vit D program. I have faithfully stuck to what he told me, and will be tested, I believe in September to see how much the supplemets have improved my numbers. So I am not anti-everything vitamin or supplements.

The same can be said of the Cranberry Juice extract pills I take daily. Since I had the urosotmy surgery last year, I will remain for life at extreme risk for fast moving UTI's, since I no longer have a functioning bladder. My uro put me on them, after telling him I can't stand the taste of cranberry juice (with the exception of apple juice, I just don't do juices). I take exactly what he tells me to take. My last UTI after surgery almost put me back into the hospital, so I don't want to mess around with that risk. Again, a supplement under doctor's supervision.



My concern is always the same, folks will read an article, get on the band wagon, and start mega dosing on this and that without medical supervision. It's each person's choice, of course, but I find that too risky a practice for me to indulge.

david
Posted 8/7/2011 2:51 AM (GMT 0)
Wouldn't hurt to have a PSA done when you have the Sept vit D blood test.
Posted 8/7/2011 2:52 AM (GMT 0)
Casey,
I heard that Dr Schrieber had recently died of his cancer. Have you heard of anything? I found his book very informative.
JT
Posted 8/7/2011 2:56 AM (GMT 0)
bb, my next PSA is still on target for December, unless my oncologist wishes to change it, which I doubt.
Posted 8/7/2011 3:03 AM (GMT 0)
What is the reference for the UCLA study? I tried looking for it and I could only find this study:

clincancerres.aacrjournals.org/content/12/13/4018.long

This is an open label study where the men were given 8 ounces of juice (Pom Wonderful) daily. There is no control group in this study. If there's another study, please help us find it. This article is by Pantuck et al, at UCLA. Clin Cancer Res July 1, 2006 12; 4018
Posted 8/7/2011 3:31 AM (GMT 0)

John T said...
Casey,
I heard that Dr Schrieber had recently died of his cancer. Have you heard of anything? I found his book very informative.
JT

Yes, his death a few weeks ago was noted HERE in a HW thread started by robertcool.

I recommend his book to any & all who strive to be informed, empowered cancer patients...

Posted 8/7/2011 3:50 AM (GMT 0)
>>My concern is always the same, folks will read an article, get on the band wagon, and start mega dosing on this and that without medical supervision. It's each person's choice, of course, but I find that too risky a practice for me to indulge.<<

that's the good thing about having cancer ... you can take vast amounts of supplements with impunity cool .

ed

Posted 8/7/2011 11:45 AM (GMT 0)

Postop, try this link for the UCLA study I mentioned: http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT00336934?term=Prostate+Cancer+AND+pomegranate&rank=4.  Pantuck and Belldegrun (Jonsson Cancer Center) are the lead investigators but Roll Corp., maker of PomX, is the sponsor.  You can also use this link to review the other ongoing studies. 

Carlos

Posted 8/7/2011 3:18 PM (GMT 0)
Interesting study?

No results posted.

Sponsored by the manufacturer.

One criteria is Gleason <= 7.

My "study" -

Started long before I had ever heard of HW, so no "hype" involved.

When I realized orange juice was causing severe incontinence issues, I switched to cranberry, but that got old. I switched to 100% pomgranite and cherry alternated (need cherry for the gout).

My PSA is doubling at 45 days.

I don't see anything exciting. I'm still drinking the juice because I need a breakfast drink, not because I have any miracle expectations.

Posted 8/7/2011 3:56 PM (GMT 0)
Carlos,

clinicaltrials.gov is a NIH website that posts clinical trials that are under way. This study has a placebo arm. Reportedly 183 patients are enrolled, with a completion date of July 2010. It sounds like they may be going to compare safety and PSADT over 12 months between POM and placebo. When the results are released, we will have some information on what POM does. I searched the authors on pubmed, and I don't see that the results have been published yet.
Posted 8/11/2011 7:26 PM (GMT 0)
You can find more research studies at wonderfulpomegranateresearch.com

Posted 8/11/2011 8:18 PM (GMT 0)
As mentioned in another thread, this site for oncologic GU education:

http://www.researchtopractice.com/GUCancers/roundtable-discussion

Has a brief discussion among the top PCa researchers in the US.
Executive summary: Pom studies (all) fall well within the placebo variation. None had a control group. Analysis: zero value.
Posted 8/11/2011 8:26 PM (GMT 0)
You know, there is another problem with all of these studies. The group taking POM may do other things to.

It seems hard to have the level of proof that truly identifies POM as being beneficial.

I might add that Dr. Scholz has  3 lists: recommended, ok to try, don't do (I am paraphrasing).

POM is on the middle list!

Mel

Posted 8/11/2011 10:14 PM (GMT 0)
Dr Myer has 3 lists also. Required as a part of his treatment program, recommended and don't use. His current required list (at least for me) is pomegrante extract, revserterol, curcummin and vit D. I take fish oil, soy isoflavones, and lycopene from his recommended list. BB
Posted 8/11/2011 10:22 PM (GMT 0)
I really do appreciate you guys sharing what you are doing with supplements, juices, extracts, etc. I am sure as one poster said, it gives satisfaction to many of you to be doing something, even tho it may not be curative by itself. Positive mental attitudes are good. Every once in a while someone comes in with an idea that I can say, well, that sounds like a good idea.

But even if I think it is a bad idea, or a waste of money, I just read on and don't have to tell someone they are misguided in my opinion, or that I can't stand that food type or juice. We don't have to put our two cents worth in on every topic. Sometimes it is better to not post and move on.

I think this site would be a lot more harmonious if we could all just have a gentleman's agreement to keep quiet when we disagree, particularly if we can't voice our disagreement without the implication that the other person is kind if stupid.

Goodlife
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