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The Anti Samadi Uro?? "Prostate Cancer Surgery Myths and.. Lies, Lies, and More darn Lies"

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Posted 1/31/2012 3:09 PM (GMT 0)
 

While I dont agree with EVERYTHING this urologist says in this "Press Release", he does make some good points.

For instance, it was NEVER mentioned to me by ANYONE that size would be reduced. And the "confidence" that Dr had in saying "we're confident it is confined", in retrospect, doesn't appear to be based on anythiong other than "odds".

Yet there are other statements he makes that I cant agree with, such as #10.  "Every man expects curative life extension after treatment of his prostate cancer, no complications and with a full return of normal daily activities and the quality of life he had before surgery." I NEVER ONCE EXPECTED THAT ANY PART OF MY LIFE WOULD SIMPLY RETURN TO 'NORMAL".

That said, the one thing that I INSIST upon is that I have access to the information so that I CAN make MY own, educated descision based on life factors that matter to me. For instance.. I remember stating that I would never let them shoot me full of radiation.. then, when surgery failed, I almost didn't hesitate to have it.

So I look back now, more informed then when I made my treatment decision, and wonder if I would do it differently if I had it to do all over again...BUT WE DONT GET DO OVERS.

In any event... this doctor's "Top 10 Prostate Cancer Myths, Misconceptions and Outright Lies" offers a perspective some of you might be interested in considering.

http://www.marke***ch.com/story/prostate-cancer-surgery-myths-and-lies-lies-and-more-darned-lies-2012-01-31

*Edited to try and give good link to the Press Release.

Post Edited (BobCape) : 1/31/2012 8:16:23 AM (GMT-7)

Posted 1/31/2012 3:19 PM (GMT 0)
Sorry.. I added the link correctly, but when I post it we see the "***" in place of the real web address. Perhaps a new policy on the site.

If it matters, that 1st part is MARKE***CH.

One can copy and paste that link changing that asterik word out and replacing it with marke***ch
Posted 1/31/2012 3:21 PM (GMT 0)
OMG, I think the system thinks I was using a swear word! ALLOW ME TO SEPARATE THE WORDS "markeT WATch"
Posted 1/31/2012 3:27 PM (GMT 0)
If you copy and paste the following, then backspace so the E and the T come together, you;ll be at the PR.

http://www.marke ***ch.com/story/prostate-cancer-surgery-myths-and-lies-lies-and-more-darned-lies-2012-01-31
Posted 1/31/2012 3:33 PM (GMT 0)
Thanks Question.. I own 200 urls but didnt think to find a short one..

This dr is really interesting if you follow his links.. quoting a patient

"Choosing prostate cancer surgery was the worst decision of my life"

Or this statement he makes

"The absence of any real significant scientific validation for prostate cancer surgery/robotics in bringing about curative life extension or reduction in prostate cancer-specific mortality, is an indictment against prostate cancer surgeons worldwide and should stop every man in his tracks."

http://www.urologyweb.com/urology/mens-health/prostate-cancer/prostate-cancer-surgery.html
Posted 1/31/2012 3:35 PM (GMT 0)
Guys,

The system removes and replaces certain words, even if they are embedded in others. Nothing we can do about that.

Posted 1/31/2012 3:44 PM (GMT 0)
The "Top 10" list of myths published in this article about radical prostate treatments has conscious-based medicine (rather than profit-based) at it's root...I applaud this doctor for stepping forward (as many other have also recently done) and being critical of his peers who push un-necessary OVERTREATMENT of low risk PC. PC overtreatment is at epidemic levels in the US.
Posted 1/31/2012 4:14 PM (GMT 0)
Bob, thanks for sharing this.  While this doc obviously has his bias as well, this is an important list and I wish every new patient would take the time to read it before jumping to a treatment.  BTW, I actually DID have the #10 expectations based on my stats and the choice I made.  So far, so good...

Tudpock (Jim)

Posted 1/31/2012 4:52 PM (GMT 0)
Thanks for sharing this link. I was able to make the short link work. While reading it, I had to grab my biopsy report to see if my cancer was at the base of the gland because I couldn't remember. It wasn't.

While in the decision stage I read two books: "Primer on Prostate: The Empowered Patient's Guide" and "The Decision: Your prostate biopsy shows cancer. Now what?: Medical insight, personal stories, and humor by a urologist who has been where you are now". I also talked to three urologists about surgery options, talked to a radiologists, and my General Practitioner at the very end. I also read some stuff off the internet towards the end but was very mindful of Internet BS. Despite performing all of the above, I still find myself wondering if I shouldn't have taken more time and studied more. I really wish I would have joined this site and just waited and read some more. I'm only four weeks post RP surgery. Only time will tell us if we made the right decision.
Posted 1/31/2012 6:15 PM (GMT 0)
This is one angry dude, and after reading the entire, lengthy PDF file, it became clear to me that in spite of many sad truths contained therein, this guy is probably the least objective, most completely biased opponent of the surgical approach that I can even imagine.

Unfortunately, the article is too lengthy to allow for line by line criticism, but if one just examines the vocabulary choices and the general tone of the article, it reads less like science and more like the angry ruminations of someone whose approach to prostate cancer is NOT surgery, but other, less invasive approaches, which certainly lack the long-term verification of success that he's so happy to criticize in the robotic approach.

Don't get me wrong.  I hate the idea of surgery for prostate cancer.  I've been there.  I have the impotence thing in my life.  I wish I hadn't had to go through it.  One can't dispute the truth of many, or most, or even all of his allegations.  Anyone who takes part in this forum knows quite well the bad outcomes that can occur. 

But, for me, it's the tone of the piece that completely turned me off.  It doesn't come across as objective in the least.  It sounds all the time like the angry comments of a guy who specializes in a particular approach, determined to make his competitors sound foolish, deceitful, cruel, and hungry for the almighty dollar.  In that respect, the truths that he cites are so skewed and twisted that I found myself turned off by the end of the article.

Posted 1/31/2012 6:39 PM (GMT 0)
BobCape, was there actually mention of Samadi in this file?  I didn't see it anywhere.

"Dr Spamadi" would be on my short list of surgeons that I would go to in a heartbeat for the best possible outcomes in a diagnosis of localized PC seeking nerve-sparing surgery.  As mentioned many times and many places, the surgeon's skill is paramount.  Samadi is innovative in continuously improving his techniques, and I give him a lot of credit for that.  I'm not at all keen on his self-promotion, and I'd still bet $10 that he "seeds" certain of patients (perhaps in exchange for some sort of perceived “discount” or other benefit) for going out into the world and promoting him (I believe we've seen evidence of that; they need to change-up the script a little more)...but I place skills and outcomes much higher than the peripheral stuff.

Posted 1/31/2012 7:35 PM (GMT 0)
BobCape - Casey has a good point. There is no mention of Dr. Samadi. It would be appropriate to rename the thread "the anti-surgery uro". In fairness to Dr. Samadi, please do that.
Posted 1/31/2012 8:16 PM (GMT 0)
Casey, 142, remove or reword my post if you wish. It was I that placed Samadi's name in the headline, and I did so intentionally. I guess I was entitled to MY opuion.

Nobody reading the article will see anything about Samadi, and I dont see how any member of either of you perceive a negative connotation with using his name.

My point would be that A Samadi would have the world believe that it is HE who can save the world, and at the other extreme is THIS guy telling the world that EVERYBODY BUT HIMSELF is a crook.

And I think BOTH of them are full of crap and are UNETHICAL for sending out PRESS RELEASES that i get IN MY EMAIL BOX.

So change the wording or take the post down if you want. It's only members who dont get a chance to read it that will be hurt.

Dealing with people's lives, and your going to send out press releases like them both of them do. Spare me!
Posted 1/31/2012 8:20 PM (GMT 0)

142, huh?  Dr. Samadi, while a great surgeon, seems to be unabashedly pro-surgery while this guy is clearly anti surgery.  Even though no mention of Dr. Samadi in the article, it seems to be an apt comparison.  Did Bob Cape break one of the rules or is this your personal opinion?

Tudpock (Jim)

Posted 1/31/2012 8:22 PM (GMT 0)
Whatever....not being critical. Was actually wondering if I missed something.  (apparently it was all just your innuendo)

Samadi is an excellent surgeon; although I don't like his self promotion.

The Vorstman "Top 10" list is very good; even if he is trying to sway business towards HIFU.
Posted 1/31/2012 8:39 PM (GMT 0)
I just read the title to imply that there was a stated reference to Dr. Samadi, and when I read through it, found that there wasn't (as did Casey).

Tud - agreed on the positions. There is not a hard rule against naming physicians, although there is a request that we avoid it.

I had no intention to imply that the post or link was incorrect.

Posted 1/31/2012 8:43 PM (GMT 0)
what an weird title to a highly dubious link.

Bob - Samadi has neve rclaimed to have powers to save the world. He is nothing more than an incredibly accomplished surgeon who is extremely confident in his skills. The results of that vast majority of his surgeries, including mine, are proof of that.

As for his self promotion, it is on the same level as the other major players in this field whethe rit be Scholtz, Menon, Tehwari, Patel etc. These guys are the best in their field and probably all have PR firms backing their services.

The author of the link isn't an anti Samadi URO, he's a tool trying to generate his own business in my opinion.
Posted 1/31/2012 8:47 PM (GMT 0)
I didnt intend on Samadi being the focus of this discussion... I was aiming to show the contrast in the two.

One seems to want to put the robot to anything that is male. The other is a doctor trying to make all the other doctors look like crooks.

I think both should go back to their practice and save lives while they take their millions. Instead of sending out Press Releases.

Press releases that almost come off as authoritative, sincere advice about major life choices people facing the horror of cancer have to consider. BUT ARE ONLY ADVERTISEMENTS FOR THEIR SERVICES SO THEY CAN EACH MAKE MORE MILLIONS!
Posted 1/31/2012 8:52 PM (GMT 0)
Hey David... you;re entitled to your opinion TOO. But perhaps you might want to take issue with Samadi's colleague whom I refer to in this post... Becauase this is what HIS COLLEAGUE SAYS

""The absence of any real significant scientific validation for prostate cancer surgery/robotics in bringing about curative life extension or reduction in prostate cancer-specific mortality, is an indictment against prostate cancer surgeons worldwide and should stop every man in his tracks."

You know Dave, I am REALLY glad you had a good result. If Samadi can cure cancer for which there is no known/proven cure, he should spend less time writing 1 sided self promotion ads, and MORE TIME saving lives. Ya think?
Posted 1/31/2012 9:30 PM (GMT 0)
Bob -

Using Samadi's name in the title of your thread only shows your personal bias and nothing factual. Again, you state that Samadi wants the world to believe he'll save the world. That's complete rubbish. Both the title of your thread and your incorrect perception of what Samadi says do a diservice to all/any prostate cancer patients.

If your looking for a magic cure for cancer you'll be sorely dissapointed. Early screening, catching it early, and having successful treatment, regardless of type, certainly will increase the odds we have. Whether you want to call it being cured or in remission is a personal choice.

The author of your link is simply promoting himself.
Posted 1/31/2012 9:55 PM (GMT 0)
And now we see why I was not happy with the title.

 

Posted 1/31/2012 10:32 PM (GMT 0)
Bob,

I can see both points on the use of the Dr. Samadi. I was directly attracted to the thread because of his name. Like some others here, I don't doubt he is an excellent surgeon on a technical basis, but I feel his self-promotion is way over the top, he could use some lessons in humility.

As far as the article itself, it would be hard to find fault with most of the content. I do agree with Clocknut, that I didn't like the anger and the tone to the article, it comes across as someone that got a raw deal in their treatment choice. It would be like me writing an article about the "Mythis of SRT", with the lifetime damage and lifetime changes it caused me, it would be hard for me to be objective and present such a topic in a positive tone.

Like many articles and studies, each reader needs to glean what they wish, and discard the rest. That's how I usually look at things.

Thanks for posting it, still some useful information regardless.

David in SC
Posted 1/31/2012 11:01 PM (GMT 0)
I agree with 142 (Moderator)- since Dr. Samadi is not mentioned in this link at all, it is inappropriate to use his name in your title of your posting.
It would have been just as effective and read by HW readers without his name being present.

Bronson
Posted 1/31/2012 11:02 PM (GMT 0)
Well allow ME to be clear.. My point was I received that press release in my email box. Just as I have receicved Samadi's press releases in my email box.

I dont know Samadi, I dont know this guy.

I didnt think it appropriate for Samadi to be making claims of "success" that clearly should come with an asterisk. I didnt think it was right for this guy to be making claims and talking down about other speciaists and treatment choices.

In MY OPINION they are equally offinsive tactics, and they are certainly the two extremes as far as I have seen. Which is why I used Samadi as the example.

So when Dave writes a few posts above "he's a tool trying to generate his own business in my opinion" the only difference in HIS opinion of a doctor MANY OTHERS probably swear by, and MY comments about Samadi... is that I think THEY'RE BOTH tools.

Funny how DAVE thinks it's ok to call THIS guy a tool, but that I am the bad because I mention HIS doctor.

Well guess what, I think they're BOTH tools for sending out that crap promoting their services a the expense of other options.

And Dave, to say to me "If your looking for a magic cure for cancer you'll be sorely dissapointed" DONT condescendingly patronize me! I have 4+3 with some 5 Cancer, I had surgery which took half of my manhood, I then had radiation that helps me piss out of my ass... i'll be darnED if I take lessons from either of these two stooges, OR you.

My post was to help others. If you dont like it, go tell the world how Samadi is due for sainthood.
Posted 1/31/2012 11:03 PM (GMT 0)
ok, it appears enough of you disagree with my methods... i'll cease posting. I still wish the best for you all. Even those that cant afford the BEST.
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