RED MEAT CONSUMPTION

Purgatory said... Why do you always, always have to be condenscending. David, I realize that you are stressed, but you must realize that name-calling ("flaming") is inappropriate…even in a face-less, online forum. Would it be appropriate if I asked you “why are you stupid?”   Of course not, and I would never do that.   You should go back and delete your last reply before the moderators delete it for you. Stop driving the supportive threads down a rathole of being “LOCKED.”

1370, you are welcome!      Tedgard, I’m suspecting that your post was tongue-in-cheek, but in case others miss this subtly,   I’ll share this comment from Dr Mark Moyad about anecdotes .   Sorry that this quote is long , but it’s worth reading .   Dr Moyad, in case you don’t recognize his name, is a PC/diet specialist who is a regular contributor in the PAACT Newsletter ( LINK ).   “Remember, that when you exercise regularly this is an investment that is put into your health bank and constantly gains interest regardless of your weight (how do you like that modern day analogy).   Also, for the men reading this article keep in mind that the same data has been found in men. So again, exercise regularly (30 minutes a day) and if you do not initially lose weight then no problem because it all still counts in terms of increasing your chances of living longer compared to individuals of similar weight that do not apparently have the time to exercise. Also, this is a great study for all those people that love to tell the story of some unhealthy person that lived to be 100 years old. Sure, this can happen, but for every unhealthy person that lives to be 100 there are hundreds of other unhealthy people that never lived to be 40 years old because they were not taking care of themselves. And, for all those people that love to tell the story of one young healthy person that died young, there are hundreds of other stories of people that lived to be very old because they were taking care of themselves. All of this stuff basically comes down to probability , and of course no one is given a guarantee that they will live longer if they exercise and maintain a healthy weight, but who gives a darn - I am going to side with the higher probability here and I refuse to side with the improbable here because most of us live by trying to increase our odds or improving our probabilities . Let me put this another way - say you are in Las Vegas and the roulette wheel contains the number 25 on every location except one, and if you place your life savings on the odds that the ball will fall in the slot that does not contain the number 25 then you should have your head examined! Yeah, you may get lucky, but I am more inclined to bet my life savings on the chance that the ball will fall on the number 25!”   Dr Moyad says it’s “ probability ,” but the industry-standard phrase   is “ stacking the odds in your favor ” ( just kidding …probability is the same thing).

tedgard, article from last month:
http://www.lasvegassun.com/blogs/kats-report/2012/jun/19/rio-wheel-reportedly-hits-seven-straight-19s-and-y/

"...yes, this is really rare"

BTW, your strategy seems very sound.

Just to clarify, my drastic change in diet was a very personal and individual decision based upon the fact that I had a very poor diet for many decades. I’m trying to undo some damage to my body that was caused by decades of junk food, not just a reaction to the cancer.

Also, I did go to a professional nutritionist and got consultation. Despite the cancer, my health is better now than ever before. My sleep apnea which caused horrible snoring has gone away and my wife no longer feels like she needs ear plugs to sleep at night. Sleep apnea is a dangerous condition that can contribute to cancer.

I think anyone making decisions about their diet in light of a cancer diagnosis has to take into account their past history with nutrition as well as the quality of the food they are eating.

I have not changed my diet, only my food source. I buy meat only from grass-fed animals from local organic farmers. Not that I have a steady diet of red meat, but I don't eschew it either.

"And when I die and when I'm dead, dead and gone, there'll be one child born in our world to carry on, carry on."

Bon appetit!
Nellie

Nellie,

"Now troubles are many, they're as deep as a well.  I can swear there ain't no heaven, but I pray there ain't no hell."

Bon appetit! 

I may have assumed too much thinking that everyone knew what the “fallacy of moderation” is.   I’ll explain, or you can Google it.   You may be familiar with the “MyPlate” guidelines, which replaced the old food pyramid.   MyPlate is considered a balanced diet with all the food groups (and by the way, “red meat” is not a food group; despite what you may hear/read, it is only one of many choices in the protein food group). The Standard American Diet (or S.A.D.; Google it, too) represents the typical eating patterns in this country, and it is filled with fatty, cancer “fuels” like excessive amounts of red meat.   Like it or not, on average, “we” are eating a lot of crap. MyPlate is the ideal, and S.A.D. (which is the average diet) is out on an extreme.   The fact is that the marketing research group NPD performed a survey and found that Americans are following MyPlate guidelines only 2% of the time. That translates to seven days out of the year!  So the notion of moderation in the US is a failure.   (Let’s not get into anecdotes…see Dr Moyad's comments earlier in this thread about anecdotes) Moderation is a word that has been used quite often when describing healthy eating and drinking patterns. Webster's Collegiate Dictionary defines moderation as avoidance of extremes.   What does this mean when we are talking about food?   Does it mean one cookie a day or one less cookie than we usually eat?  Perhaps it means that we don't eat the whole cookie jar?  Does it mean once a day, once a week, once a month or once a year?   The problem is that it can mean anything that we want it to mean. This isn't good enough when we are talking about promoting healthy eating behaviors. To say "all things in moderation" boils down to an excuse to maintain the status quo , which arguably is the average Standard American Diet. While it’s not necessarily for everyone, some people are interested in doing a little better than “average” in terms of modifying their lifestyle choices, and some people are motivated to do a lot better than "average."  There is no one-size-fits-all solution in terms of PC diet, treatment or anything else which is correct for everyone.  But a support site like this should applaud those who are trying hard, harder, and hardest and be a resource for the best of all PC resources rather than befuddle them with mediocrity…     edit:   typo Post Edited (Casey59) : 7/26/2012 2:53:22 PM (GMT-6)

Casey,

You just said, in reference to moderation:

"The problem is that it can mean anything that we want it to mean. This isn't good enough when we are talking about promoting healthy eating behaviors. To say "all things in moderation" boils down to an excuse to maintain the status quo, which arguably is the average Standard American Diet."

Don't you see, that is just your opinion on moderation. A person with no personal responsibility might end up
"status quo" as you suggest, but that assumes a whole lot. There are people that know what moderation means, and it doesn't mean whatever you want it to be. There are plenty of healthy diet and eating guides that give suggested serving sizes and frequency. You make it sound like its all or nothing, and that simply isn't the case. Also depends how much self-disciplene an individual has. And there is no way to make some hard fast judgement in advance about that.

I see nothing wrong with "moderation" in reference to eating, it makes perfect sense, and it takes some practice to get it right.

One thing my dieticians said, that drove home a good point, is that they see people so OCD about eating or not eating certain foods, yet they continue to smoke. THey point out, that the smoking does far more damage in a person's lifetime, then any of the dietary improvements they think that are helping them. I have noticed here at HW, whenever smoking has been discussed, and surprised its not on the top of your list, there's a quiet hush in the room. I am not being judgmental on the subject, but it is a proven and important aspet to healthy living, one that is kind of hard to dispute.

david

1370,

You are welcome!

BOOGEE