Medved's Pom Question

Hello all.  I participate on this forum, on occassion, because:

(1) my dad, who died from metastatic prostate cancer, suggested that I try to use some of the things I learned while trying to help him, to assist others (I did an enormous amount of reserach and reading at the time) -- so, on occassion, I try to pass along something I learned, if it seems relevant or responsive to a question; and

(2) my psa has been higher than normal -- though not yet high enough to justify a biopsy -- but given family history and higher-than-normal psa, I watch it very carefully.

I have one question about Pomegranate supplements (Pomx, etc.).  I am a little bit reluctant to raise this topic because I know people sometimes have strong feelings about supplements, and for whatever reason this one in particular.  But my question is a pretty discrete one:   Is there any basis to believe that Pom may make detection of prostate cancer more difficult by "artifically" reducing psa, thereby "masking" a cancer, or making psa velocity calculations more challenging. (For reasons that would not apply to Pom, this can be the case with dutasteride or finasteride -- which is why well-informed doctors will "adjust" psa readings when a patient is taking these medications).  

Thanks for any knowledge on this.  And best wishes to all of you.

Hi Medved,

The way I understand the pomegranate to work is not in lowering PSA but in the inhibition (not prevention) of metastasis. I take a supplement but my PSA continues to rise though I am yet to have symptoms of the disease. See the link.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/12/101212121741.htm

Don

medved, without this thread turning into an "ugly contest", as if often does on this subject, i would only like to say, that most doctors seem to agree that there isn't a masking efffect from the use of POM, but however, there are oncologists (my own included) they would respectfully disagree. My doctor has been real strict with me on the use of any vitamins or supplements. i have put him on the spot about drinking POM juice or the pills from the extract, while he doesn't agree of any benefit, he also has always added in, that it won't harm anything or anyone if they think its going to do good. i took that, personaly, as a "no" answer, and as of now, I am still being very compliant to his request not to take any supplements or vitamins.

while any GP isn't going to be as qualified on the subject as an oncologist, my GP of some 18 years experience with me as a patient, fully agrees with my oncologist on the subject.

With my uro/surgeon, for the first year after my bladder by-pass surgery, he made a single exception himself, and had me take the concentrated cranberry juice pills, to ward off what he deemed as a high risk for UTI situation with me, since I no longer have a functional bladder. At my last checkup a month or so ago, he felt I was passed the danger point/risk, and said I no longer needed to take them, unless I particually wanted to.

I see the whole subject as a personal medical decision, more than something that can be 100% proven one way or the other.

I would respect what you or anyone else chooses to do about it, take it or not take it.

david

There is no concern over "masking" caused by pomegranate juice or extract.

While not everyone responds equally (nor does everyone respond equally to hormone therapy, for example), there is virtually no significant downside and only upside to POMx for men with progressing PC.

best wishes...

Med,
Psa is only created by two things, benign prostate tissue and prostate cancer. So far all the trials on POM have been for patients who recieved a radical surgery and are having a reoccurrance. Pom has been shown by two studies, UCLA and Hopkins to slow down the psa doubling time for men who have had surgery and have a rising psa. This is pretty good data from two reputable institutions that has not been disputed by anyone. Other doctors can believe what they want, but the data is clear that Pom did reduce the PSADT for men with reocccurring PC after surgery. Since these men don't have prostate tissue the only psa that could have been affected is that from PC. Since psa in post surgery men is directly related to both cancer volume and growth, anything that affects psa means that it is directly affecting the cancer's growth and not masking anything. This is how we monitor if HT is working or not and there is no question that a reduction in PSA while on HT is affecting the cancer and not masking psa.
Note: that the only data we have on Pom is from post surgery patients. We don't know if it works on low risk patients or is able to prevent prostate cancer, but if it does slow down PSADT in post op men, it is not unreasonable to make that logic leap even though it is unproven.

question, that is what my GP, Uro, and Oncol said from the start, at worse, men are creating expensive urine.

on the cranberry, and chemistry is a weak area for me, had something to do with changine the acidity or lack of it in the urine, making it less "friendly" turf for a UTI to set in. In the year plus I was on the cranberry, I only had one minor UTI near the end of that time. Didn't have any of the more serious one's i encountered shortly after the by-pass surgery. with one of them, i was moments away from being put back into the hospital, it had spread that fast.

david