Active Surveillance rolling the dice? From Gleason 6-7 to Gleason 6, & my PSA going down.

Hi Bill,

Just wanted to say hello and that I find your posts refreshing. So much so that, having been an occiasional lurker her, I finally joined to say I appreciate your attitude. "Cause I am a 64 y.o. guy, who also has PCa, and is also a "weird diet" guy. Up for a little weird diet talk? lol

I was diagnosed 5 months ago. Pigged out on a super-size me bag of potato chips and a beer that night, and started a pretty strict alkaline diet the next day.No sugar, no processed foods, nothing that comes in a box (except almond milk), no meat, no dairy (one exception), no eggs, only 3 fruits - avocado (no sugar), grapefruit (alkaline, and I need it to eat the avocados, which I don't like by themselves), and blueberries, which has to do with the dairy exception(will explain later).

Not as strict as you? Or more strict? As I also don't eat any cereals (grains)! None. No wheat, no corn, no rice, no oats, not even quinoa. Why? you might ask. It goes back to the sugar factor. There is nothing cancer cells like more than a little (or big) sugar snack. Grains are carbohydrate foods, which means they are digested first in the stomach, and then sent to the intestines. While they are in the intestines, they slowly convert to sugar, thereby giving your body a sustainable glucose supply, as opposed to the quick glucose hit from sugar or fruit, which converts to glucose very quickly, and, typically, gets used up before too long. That's why you get a sugar rush from a can of Pepsi, or to a lesser extent from a ripe, juicy, piece of fruit.

I hope this doesn't come as bad news to you, as you know I love your positivity! More bad news! Oh, oh! Your body can also convert protein to glucose, when it needs to. At one point, I attempted to do a no sugar, no grains, no protein diet! lol You can imagine how long that lasted (longer than you might think, but eventually, I concluded that I would wither away before the cancer killed me, and came to my senses (Thanks, God!).

Which is where the dairy/blueberries exception comes into the picture. I was dropping weight a lot fast than anyone on The Biggest Loser (TV show about dieting), so then I added avocados to the paltry amount of almonds I was eating (and grapefruit slipped in there, out of flavor necessity). That helped, but not enough. Doing pretty much nonstop google research, I kept coming across something called the Budwig diet, created by a now-deceased German biochemist, Johanna Budwig, who ran a cancer treatment center in Germany. At the core of the Budwig diet is a concoction made of cottage cheese mixed with flaxseed oil, and ground flaxseed.

Initially, I did not consider it, as I HATE cottage cheese worse than anything except mayo. But then I thought about the discussion I had with my brother a year ago, when he told me he eats yogurt/flaxseed w/ blueberries for breakfast every day. He about freaked when I told him I was scarfing down some 4 bean salad, while I was talking to him. "That's SUGAR!" he cried, as if I had confessed some awful deed to him. I laughed, so what's a little sugar, I'm still getting eating the beans, which are veggies, aren't they? You can imagine the diatribe that followed! Oh, if I had only listened to big brother. lol

So, anyhow, I researched that, and found that some people say you can substitute yogurt for cottage cheese. And, that, in fact, Dr. Budwig didn't even use cottage cheese, she used quark, which is essentially yogurt with all the whey drained out of it, which makes it into a soft cheese. So I drain as much of the whey off as I can, and oila! - yogurt/flaxseed/blueberries.

Getting back to the evils of sugar, and to a lesser extent, carbs and protein foods, there is a theory espoused by some weird diet folks, that when you eat your turmeric, capsicum, ginger, garlic, or other such organic anti-cancer agent (foods, herbs, spices, etc., that have been show to promote cell aptosis in cancer cells in vitro), you add a wee bit of sugar/carb to the mix, so that, hopefully, the hungry little PC beasts( I picture the man-eating plants in Little Shop of Horrors) in your prostate (or other organ), will get a little surprise when the eagerly devour the sugar. Kind of a Trojan horse strategy, where sugar is the horse and turmeric, or whatever, is the Greeks. So whenever I eat some protein, such as the yogurt mix or avocados, I try to sneak a little surprise in there with it, such as turmeric, or one of several other such substances I have identified(mostly herbs).

Call me wacky, bananas, or just plain stupid, but, one month ago, at the 4 month mark, my PSA had dropped over 50% from the testing at the time of Dx. I can't tell you how scared I was when I went to find out the result of that test. So, I am not out of the danger zone, yet, but initial results were gratifying.

Anyhow, let me just say that the downside of all this weird diet is that I simply don't have the physical energy or power that I had before. At the time I was diagnosed, I was fighting a battle of the bulge, and losing ground. Since I started the diet, I lost weight so fast, I had to break the dairy ban, just to get my weight to stabilize (which it has, ty). Also, at time of Dx, my T was 850 (with no supplements except DHEA, which I took for weight-lifting). That has dropped, too. I thought I would really miss the raging libido, but now it actually seems quite nice to have it more under control.

So much for diet stuff. I also do yoga every day and meditate. And surprisingly, have become a very positive person! In the past, was more of a bipolar type, super positive when I was on a roll, and prone to mild depression, when things weren't going my way.

I want to say here, that, I totally relate to all the hippy-trippy attitude, and create your own reality stuff that you have beautifully expressed, Bill, much better than I could ever do. When I was first diagnosed, I thought I was the healthiest guy on the planet, or only a few extra pounds short of that (I was clearly in denial about some symptoms I was having). When I got the bad news, what a jolt! My initial reaction, was ****! I'm gonna die! Followed by, "Oh, well, I've had a good run, no one lives forever. But, darn it, I was figuring on another 25 yrs or so!"

But then, as the days rolled on, I couldn't help but recognize the voice inside me saying, "No. You're not going to die any time soon. You can beat this." That voice was strong and persistent. It got louder, and it wouldn't shut up. And it told me what to do. Which is what I have done, and, although the details are different, maybe not so different from you, Bill.

I analyzed the problem, and this is what I came up with. I like my prostate, and, at its' core (pun intended), it likes me. I am not at war with my prostate. My prostate is my friend, and has been very good to me over the many years we've been together. We are pals, we are partners, and I am not even considering a divorce. Til death do us part, but I don't in my soul believe it has to come to that over our recent problems. We'll go to counseling, and try to resolve our problems (not really, but in a metaphysical sense). My prostate did behead anyone (not yet), it is not my enemy, and I am going to make it feel the love. I am the father, it is my prodigal son, and I love it. I frequently now convene a meeting of the board of The Jaybee Organs Society, and let them know the boss loves them all, they are all my children, and encourage them to spread the love, let little P know that he is loved, he is welcome back into the fold, he can chill out, relax, no need to freak out any more.

Obviously, I am being a bit generous with the metaphors. But is really not so far from the truth, in keeping with my Taoist/Buddhist inclinations. But I've said enough.

And then there are moments, thankfully rare, when I tell myself that I am TOTALLY in denial, and should run to the nearest hospital for some good slash/burn/chemo and chemical castration treatments. And I thing about it, and go "Na-a-a-h!" I quickly come to my senses (or go back to being crazy, if you like). I don't know, works for me.

So thanks again, Bill ( and a shout out to Dreamerboy, as well) for letting me know that I am not the only trippy-hippie weird diet, positive-thinking guy out there in the PCa world. Keep the faith, Baby!!!

Nice to have you join the group Jaybee_007. I think a positive attitude, such as yours, is as important as anything else we do.

It seems we all have a little different slant on the diet. The common thread seems to be that we agree that refined sugar is to be avoided. It is something that is difficult at first but gets easier as time goes on. I think this is because sugar is addictive. It's hard to stop at one cookie.

I do eat some things that some of you have given up. I have oatmeal about 3 times a week for breakfast. I add some hemp seeds (maybe I am becoming a hippy), pumpkin seeds, dried cranberries, raisins, cinnamon and sometimes a dash of clove and sea-salt. I sweeten it with a little apple sauce.

I eat fruit. I've heard that many of the phytochemicals are helpful. Fruit pectin is also thought to have anti-cancer properties. Those along with the fiber probably balance out the sugar content.

I try to avoid white bread and lately have been springing for a very dense German-style bread.

I try to eat lots of cruciferous vegetables, spinach, sun-dried tomatoes, turmeric, garlic and onions.

Veggie-dogs with a good German sauerkraut, diced onions and a spicy mustard help beat the fast-food cravings. (Sauerkraut is said to be high in vitamin K which is helpful to the prostate.)

I still drink beer, coffee and red wine in moderation as all have been theorized to have positive effects on prostate cancer. (And besides I have a fondness for these beverages.)

Lots of great vegan recipes on the internet to make interesting dishes with chick peas, lentils, cabbage, etc.

I try to keep in shape alternating weight training and aerobic exercise.

Also I don't know if it is the vegetarian diet or the cancer diagnosis but I find that I am becoming more spiritually attuned with a healthy respect for the positive aspects of all religions. I listen to you tube videos of a fellow named Ralph Smart when I'm feeling negative or stressed. (Another hippy-like tenancy.) I try to live in the moment which isn't always easy. I also like to end each day being grateful or thankful for 5 things. I find getting into nature has positive benefits. Getting into the woods is great but even sitting in your garden with a cup of green tea, has positive benefits. Getting into nature is a good tonic and probably more beneficial than many medicines.

Bill, (and others),   Ya know, if you read the book “Anticancer, A New Way of Life,” one might think that it’s everyone else, not you , who is on an “extreme diet.”   The “Standard American Diet,” (S.A.D., ironically, for short) has changed dramatically…DRAMATICALLY in the short time since about WWII.     I saw in another thread from a while ago a great quote from Dr. Servan-Schreiber (author of the "Anticancer" book) from an interview about the American Diet: ·          Interviewer :  How does the traditional American diet create conditions for cancer to thrive?  ·          Dr. Servan-Schreiber :  Look at the American national dish: hamburger and french fries, with a white bun and ketchup. You couldn't do better if you wanted to try to promote cancer growth: red meat (the No. 1 food ingredient associated with a variety of cancers), grown on corn and soy (which remove the healthy omega-3s that are found in grass-fed meat), and bovine growth hormone (which stimulates all cell growth, including cancer cell growth); french fries: a rare vegetable that does not help slow cancer growth but, on the contrary, stimulates insulin release and thus cell growth, dipped in omega-6 inflammation-promoting oil and fried to increased oxidative stress; white bread: which again stimulates insulin release.     Have you read the “ Anticancer ” book yet?   I’ve read it…and I recommend it to you.   Also, have you become familiar with the term “Integrative Oncology?”   This is a relatively new topic but is developing into new professional standards which will also clearly be of interest to you.   A leader in this field is Dr. Brian Lawenda who is a trained radiation oncologist (Harvard/Mass. Gen.) specializing in prostate cancer treatment but has launched a set of programs on Integrative Oncology—using complementary, integrative medicine practices to treat cancers.   Check out these two links: ·          LINK to a webinar Dr Lawenda gave just 2 months ago to a PC group (free, sign-in required) ·          LINK to Dr Lawenda’s Integrative Oncology Essentials web site   Good luck!  

bill, your in good shape at 70 I feel you can do whatever pleases you,, on your diet my oncology dr, said when I was trying to lose weight, because Im heavy, and a diebetic, my last acl score was 6.8 but heres what the dr said, DO NOT TRY TO LOSE ANY WEIGHT AT ALL] said it is to hard on the body when you have p.c. and to keep doing what you doning now,, she told me the goal for most pc. is to keep you alive, So you die from some thing else, she relly pissed me off, I then got a different dr,, my score 4 .5 yrs ago was gleason:4+4=8 and in 1/2 the other half was clean, full prostate racial remover,had a bone scan before operation as dr would not operate if their was any any outside the cap,, in your cass I would have it removed,before my case was having bood work every yr was around 5.5 to 6 then at 61 I skiped 1 yr,,,,repeat 1 yr, and in that 1 yr it went from a 5.5 to a 12psa so much for that story,, email if you want details god bless Kenny

Hi Jack H,

I spent an hour or so today (Thursday) at Barnes & Noble leafing through the book you've recommended, full title, Anticancer: A New Way of Life. I homed in on what the author has to say about nutrition, what his food recommendations are. At the same time I was also having a look at three other books too. Here's my list of the four books.

Anticancer, a New Way of Life
by Dr. Servan-Schreiber
www.anticancerbook.com

Foods to Fight Cancer
by Beliveau & Gingras
($19.95)

Beating Cancer with Nutrition
by Quillin
$25.

Surviving Prostate Cancer
by Patrick Walsh
$19.

Surviving Prostate Cancer is a big thick book, and it looked like it covers exhaustively everything to do with prostate cancer, written from the point of view of a professor of urology at Johns Hopkins. In depth discussions of how to interpret Gleason scores, the trustworthiness of PSA scores, two headings which stuck in my mind. Lots lots more topics. Has the look and feel of a classic textbook.

With my personal interest in particular on diet and nutrition that beneficially impacts my own prostate cancer, I mostly read small sections of

Anticancer: A New Way of Life;
Foods to Fight Cancer; and
Beating Cancer With Nutrition.

I took some notes, writing on the only thing I had with me, a section of today's paper. I cannot tell from my notes which information comes from which book, my apologies about that, but here are the various food recommendations from (one or more of) the four books that I felt to write down. No real surprises for me, but it was good to see confirmation of much of what I am already eating:

cabbage
broccoli
garlic
soy
green tea
tumeric
rasberries
blueberries
olive oil
canola oil
flax seed oil

rosemary
parsley

advice that to get the best benefit of tomatoes I need to cut whole tomatoes up and cook them. Two hours ago I cooked a skillet with cut up fresh whole organic tomatoes, olive oil, garlic, onions, tumeric, cayenne. Very tasty, if a little spicy!

green tea (decaf also delivers the benefits)
steep for 10 minutes

tumeric
mix 1/4 teaspoon of tumeric with 1/2 tablespoon of olive oil and pinch of black pepper

ginger
cruciform veggies
cabbages, bok choy, broccoli, cauliflower
garlic, onions, leeks, shallots, chives
carrots, yams, sweet potatoes, squash, tomatoes, apricots, beets
soy (tofu)
mushrooms
seaweeds
pomegranates
omega-3s
probiotics

selenium
vitamin K
vitamin E
EPA
vitamin A
vitamin D
bioflavonoids
soybeans
flax
co-enzyme Q-10
echinea
goldenseal
astragalus
vitamin C
chlorella
spirulina
barley green

Sorry if this is a bit of a mismash, but I find it valuable to check these foods, herbs, spices, supplements, against the big -- about 4 feet high x about 5 feet wide -- chart tacked up on the wall in my bedroom, directly behind the desk my laptop sits on. It's the first thing I see in the morning, and the last thing at night. Between my big chart and one of those black & white notebooks you might remember from 5th or 6th grade, any CVS drug store sells, it's important to have notebooks to write down the best information I am gleaning from my research, suggestions of friends, websites to visit suggestions on HealingWell, and my own library. I feel like I'm going to the University of Healthy Living! A new university I just invented.

Bill
______________________________________________
70 years in this body I've only just recently
properly appreciated -- better late than never!
Prostate biopsy procedure late July 2014
Diagnosed Prostate Cancer early August 2014
Prostate nodule 7/2014, 6 /2014, 4/2014

PSA history:
1/08 4.6
4/08 6.4
7/08 3.5
12/09 2.5
2/11 4.4
4/12 3.2
4/14 5.4
8/14 5.1
9/3/14 4.9

CT & bone scan 8/12/2014 negative

1st Pathology Report (8/1/2014) on 7/28/14 biopsy
4 cores Gleason 6 (3+3), 69%, 75%, 100%, 100%
2 cores Gleason 7 (3+4), 66%, 88%

1st Second Opinion Pathology Report (8/26/2014) on 7/28/14 biopsy
6 cores Gleason 6 (3+3), 77%, 77%, 78%, 78%, 95%, 95%

2nd Second Opinion (or 3rd overall) Pathology Report (9/12/2014, Johns Hopkins) on 7/28/2014 biopsy.
6 cores Gleason 6 (3+3),
A. prostatic adenocarcinoma, 90%, 80%
B. prostatic adenocarcinoma, 90%, 90% ("perineural invasion identified in this case")
C. prostatic adenocarcinoma, 90%, 90%

Hi Bill,

First off, one of the first things I stated before it that I am 64. But I'm flattered you thought I was younger! lol

As for diet, I eat a heck of a lot of veggies, of every sort, except for potatoes, of course. That starts with a big breakfast of steamed veggies, which I then sautee lightly in olive oil, with scallions, garlic, ginger, fresh basil, and throw some crimini mushrooms, which I've cooked with sesame oil on my Geo. Forman grill. And slice a tomato into little wedges that I put on top of it all. That is a little less than two plates of veggies.

While the veggies are cooking, I also usually drink a small glassl, maybe 6 oz, of almond milk with a heaping 1/2 teaspoon each of spirulina and chlorella. Oh, and before all that, usually drink a little lemon juice, also.

During the day, at work, I try to have 2 light meals, first the yogurt mix, and later a grapefruit with an avocado. When I get home, it's more yogurt mix, then an hour or so later, a big salad w/ romaine, baby spinach, red or yellow pepper, scallions, chick peas, cucumber, and tofu, sprinkled liberally with olive oil, and squeeze half a small lemon over it. And sea salt and pepper, of course.

If I've had time to make it earlier, I will also eat a big bowl of soup. I really like baby lima beans (which are alkaline, I think - there is mega disagreement on what is alkaline and what isn't), so the soup usually has a lima bean base, w/ carrots, celery, garlic, yellow onions, leeks, and maybe rutabaga, golden beets, or turnips (but not more than one of the last three), plus spices, of course. Always hits the spot!

When I am in a munching mood, or go to a movie, then it is almonds, seaweed, and/or grapefruit w/ licorice tea or V-8 juice. If I really want to get wired, maybe guayaki mate w/ mint, or iced tea w/ lemon(no sugar, that goes without saying!) I am occasionally seduced by brazil nuts, but try to keep that at a minimum. Pumpkin seed are good, too, and sometimes chia seeds.

The various anticancer foods include everything on the list in your last post, except raspberries, pomegranates, apricots, yams/sweet potatoes(yuck), chives(not familiar w/ them), canola oil, and astragalus (I'll have to get some of that!). The barley green only in some Super Green powder stuff I occasionally mix with almond milk.

In addition, I use colloidal silver (1100 ppm), tocotrienols, resveratrol, ashwagandha, dandelion root, yellow dock, burdock, milk thistle, red clover blossoms, alpha-lipoic acid, grapeseed extract, ginseng, krill oil, and licorice root. Sometimes I throw in a little MSM, too, as some say that is better to use than a sweetener to target the cancer cells.

As to the question about my yogurt mix, dairy is bad for 2 reasons, 1) Fat, 2) Omega 6s. Nonfat yogurt takes care of fat issue. Flaxseed and flaxseed oil are very, very high in Omega 3s, which cancel out the bad Omega 6s, and then some. IMHO, the whey is excess protein, but also the flaxseed mixes better with a more dense product (like cottage cheese), so you have to use 3 times more yogurt (which is fine with me, we are only talking six ounces of yogurt per meal), and mix it more. Also, Budwig was a biochemist, and there is something I don't fully grasp, about how the flax combines with the protein in the dairy, that is unique, and supposed to be good for cancer patients. Although, she did deal with VERY sick, late stage patients, who often were fighting cachexia, so nutrition was a key issue, and that mix seemed to help them, even when they couldn't stomach regular food.

As for my name, it is actually JB. As for my history, I am going to have to ask for a little indulgence on that matter. The fact is that you are the first and only (except for other readers here) person who knows that I have cancer, not including, of course, my doctors. My children don't know, nor does my ex, nor my best friends. I don't want them to worry, I don't want anyone's sympathy, and I don't want them to look at me or treat me differently, which I think would be hard for them not to do, if they knew the score. Maybe that tells you something about me. And while, I appreciate the incredible amount of support and sharing that members here give each other, (I think it is awesome), I am not seeking advice. On the contrary, I have a habit of keeping my own counsel in important matters. I am too easily influenced by other people, and find all this cancer stuff to be incredibly confusing. The only way that I can keep my head clear, and make what I think are the best decisions for me, is to listen to my inner voice, which can be hard to hear, if other voices are rattling around in my head.

I hope that doesn't sound arrogant. Every person has to find their way, whether that is diet, positivity, chemo, radiation, surgery, ADT, or whatever. It's whatever works for you. That is all that counts. Believe me, I have given careful consideration to all of the above. And I reserve the right to completely change my mind, at any point in time, should I choose to do so.

What the guys here do for each other I think is fantastic. But, as I said initially, I have been just a lurker for some time, reading, learning, but not posting. That is not going to change a lot. But your post was hard to ignore, since you are the only one so far, of what I've read, here and on other forums, that addressed the issues of diet, positive thought, creating one's own reality, and intuition (listening to one's inner voice). I couldn't not respond to that. Plus I didn't even imagine there was anyone else out there who was also eschewing consumption of fruit on account of the sugar factor, let alone to a degree even greater than myself.

It's getting late and I've probably bored a few people half to death. I still want to address the issues of fruit and grain consumption, so I will try to do that in a reply to Dreamerboy, before I call it a night.

In closing, let me just throw out two quotes that say it all for me:

"Never give up, never give in!" (paraphrasing W. Churchill)

And, of course, A.C. Powell's famous rallying cry, "Keep the faith, Baby!"

JB

Hi SuperMax,

Thanks for your great post. Two short paragraphs leapt off the screen for me, which I immediately copied into my notebook, as they question my basic assumptions and reasons for going for an alkaline diet, and for going for a low-sugar diet:

According to your reporting [and thanks for the medical advice disclaimer. ] Dr. Moyad said,

"Regarding alkaline diets as anti-cancer, he [Dr. Moyad] stated that our blood pH is tightly regulated by our bodies and attempting to change it with diet only effects as far as the digestive system. If the blood pH were to change, organ failure would result."

and

". . . regarding low sugar diets as being anti-cancer, he suggested that PC feeds on LDL cholesterol and that may be the thing to reduce."

* * *

Even if I grant the possible truth and scientific accuracy of what the good doctor was saying, I'm feeling my new diet -- which is probably a vegan and/or macrobiotic diet, although that wasn't my original intention -- has other good benefits like improved energy, improved mood, clearer thinking, probably better for my heart than what I used to eat, all of which persuades me to continue on with what I've been doing, even if I might be mistaken about an alkaline diet and a low-sugar diet, in combination, as degrading/fighting against my prostate cancer -- being "anti-cancer." Call it, "right choices, wrong reasons."

* * *

Hi Jaybee,

And a quick tip of the hat to you, for the detail-filled description of what, precisely, you eat every day. Thank you for your comprehensive list. I love it. I plan to read up on some components I've not heard of previously: colloidal silver (1100), tocotrienols, resveratrol [this one sound vaguely familiar], and ashwagandha.

You are preaching to the choir I am certain with saying you "listen to my inner voice." Amen to that, my friend. That sometimes, and sometimes oftentimes, can be hard to do with conflicting opinions being expressed all around. Put aside the slightest worry you might be sounding, "Hope that doesn't sound arrogant." No way!

"I didn't even imagine there was anyone else out there who was also eschewing consumption of fruit on account of the sugar factor." I feel the exact same way in the opposite direction! I haven't yet read your note to Dreamerboy re fruit and grains but am looking forward to that this evening.

I've been part of a lot of different groups and workshops and forums in my life, on different continents. And I'll unhesitatingly say this. This prostate forum on HealingWell is right up there among the very best, most useful, authentically real, friendly, modesty abounds, strong sense of community, really good people, of them all.

Bill

______________________________________________
70 years in this body I've only just recently
properly appreciated -- better late than never!
Prostate biopsy procedure late July 2014
Diagnosed Prostate Cancer early August 2014
Prostate nodule 7/2014, 6 /2014, 4/2014

PSA history:
1/08 4.6
4/08 6.4
7/08 3.5
12/09 2.5
2/11 4.4
4/12 3.2
4/14 5.4
8/14 5.1
9/3/14 4.9

CT & bone scan 8/12/2014 negative

1st Pathology Report (8/1/2014) on 7/28/14 biopsy
4 cores Gleason 6 (3+3), 69%, 75%, 100%, 100%
2 cores Gleason 7 (3+4), 66%, 88%

1st Second Opinion Pathology Report (8/26/2014) on 7/28/14 biopsy
6 cores Gleason 6 (3+3), 77%, 77%, 78%, 78%, 95%, 95%

2nd Second Opinion (or 3rd overall) Pathology Report (9/12/2014, Johns Hopkins) on 7/28/2014 biopsy.
6 cores Gleason 6 (3+3),
A. prostatic adenocarcinoma, 90%, 80%
B. prostatic adenocarcinoma, 90%, 90% ("perineural invasion identified in this case")
C. prostatic adenocarcinoma, 90%, 90%

Hey, I love this "weird diet" stuff!

I started changing from the S.A.D. diet just over a year ago. I hadn't yet been diagnosed with PCa, but I was concerned about the possibility due to my rising PSA versus the now apparently false security I was getting form my declining PCA-3 scores (another story), so I was already researching the subject. I didn't go radical on the diet, I just cut down quite a bit on meat and processed food, and made a point to eat more veggies. I also added ground flax seed to my morning smoothie or cereal. My weight dropped from 260 lb to 225 lb over a 6 month period.

Since being diagnosed in July 2014, I went more "weird" on my diet. I cut out almost all animal protein including eggs, cut out almost all dairy (except for a bit of milk in my coffee), and reduced the amount of fat, refined sugar and processed food even more. I do eat fruit, and I'm not concerned about the naturally occurring sugar in fruit. My weight is now down to 215 lb.

I am taking a low dose aspirin, Zyflamend and Pomi T every day as well.

Unfortunately, with some G7 found in my biopsy, AS is not a good option for me. I strongly believe though, that good diet is needed in addition to tumor de-bulking or removal through traditional medical treatment. The chance of surgery or radiation being effective at removing every single last cancer cell is probably low, so a good diet will help keep any remaining cancer cells from taking over again.

Some good nutrition sources that I have read/watched are:

Forks Over Knives - a movie available on Netflix
Beating Cancer With Nutrition, by Patrick Quillin
The China Study, by T. Colin Campbell


I recently ordered a copy of New Prostate Cancer Nutrition Book, by Charles (Snuffy) Myers - but I haven't received it yet.

Another benefit of trying to change one's health through diet is that it helps create a positive mental state of mind due to gaining a feeling of control over one's health.

And, here are a few links on the subject that I found interesting:

prostate-cancer.org/diet-vitamins-exercise-for-prostate-cancer/
www.onegreenplanet.org/vegan-health/choline-why-eggs-may-worsen-prostate-cancer/
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3132069/

Hi Bill,

A couple of things:

1st - on the case against the alkaline diet:

Dr. Moyad said,

"Regarding alkaline diets as anti-cancer, he [Dr. Moyad] stated that our blood pH is tightly regulated by our bodies and attempting to change it with diet only effects as far as the digestive system. If the blood pH were to change, organ failure would result."

On every website, I've ever visited, while researching, a discusision of the alkaline diet usually includes a post from an MD stating that our blood PH is regulated by our lungs, and the PH is constant (IIRC, it is always between 7.25 and 7.39). And also that excess acid or excess alkaloids from what we eat/drink is neutralized and excreted through our kidneys. Which is true. You will get very ill and die before long, if your blood PH deviates even a little from that narrow range. If you want to read a well-explained argument from an MD debunking the whole alkaline diet "myth," here is a good one:

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/ph-miracle-living-dr-robert-o-young-finally-arrested-but-will-it-stop-him/

The subject of the article is the arrest of one of the most well-known proponents of the alkaline diet, a Dr. Robt Young (not a real doctor). From all that is said there, Young probably is a quack. Because his logic just seems very faulty. In other words, he believes in the alkaline diet, but his explanation of why, his sceince, if you will, just doesn't make sense. Just the same, when I read the real doctor's scathing attack on Young, I can also see that, aside from pointing out the flaws in Young's logic, he shows a very strong bias towards a view that the standard medical establishment knows all that there currently is to know about disease, and that anyone who espouses an alternative view should lose their license, or better yet, be jailed.

In particular, when debunking Young's pseudoscientic logic, he attacks Young for saying that disease is not caused by bacteria, fungi, or viruses (Pasteur's Germ Theory established that microbes do cause disease), but acid is the cause and the bacteria, fungi, and viruses are just the result. On the basis of which, I agree that Young can be rightly called a quack, or at best, a misguided soul. However, the irony is that the MD is attacking Young for saying that cancer IS NOT caused by microbes, when, in fact, the medical establishment's position is also that cancer IS NOT caused by microbes! In addition to which, though it is not addressed in that article, the medical establishment vehement attacks and accuses of quackery a number of alternative practitioner's who assert that cancer IS caused by microbes. No matter how illogical Young's position is, I cannot help but see a bit of pot-kettle-black there.

I don't have all the answers, but it is clear that the S.A.D is a very, very acidic diet. That meat is acidic, and that meat-eaters have a way higher incidence of colon cancer, and other digestive system cancers. And I question the notion that the lungs and kidneys do all the work of regulating PH balance just as a matter of course, with no adverse effects. You or I could load heavy boxes onto trucks all day long, but we cannot keep doing it every single day of our lives without getting a bit worn-out or stressed from it. If the food we eat has the same PH as our blood does, which is, in fact, alkaline, then doesn't that make the job our lungs and kidneys do a bit easier? Not to mention some other things, such as the blood is not the only tissue in our body. And the body uses alkaline minerals to de-acidify itself, so might not constantly overloading our body with acidic foods cause the body to leach alkaline minerals out of our bones, if we are not ingesting enough alkaline minerals in our food?

I'm not a scientist, so I cannot answer those questions. However, all you have to do is look at the results of the S.A.D. on people. Something like 90% of people over 60 are on prescription medicines, and, get this, 70% of the entire US population of all ages, is on prescription drugs! Is that normal? Well, actually, it is the new normal. Which tells me there is something very wrong going on in this country.

If everyone ate a healthy, balanced diet, a non-acidic, slightly alkaline or neutral PH diet, so you think 70% of the people would be on drugs? Actually, if you count all the potheads, cokeheads, meth addicts, X-stacy users, nicotine addicts, and people buying prescription drugs illegally, alcoholics, how many are left, who aren't on drugs? lol

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/study-shows-70-percent-of-americans-take-prescription-drugs/

Which in my mind, makes a great case for a healthy, balanced diet, aimed to maintain homeostasis in the body. In my case, I am still going as alkaline as I can with my diet, because I am going with Hippocrates on this one - "For extreme diseases, extreme methods of cure, as to restriction, are most suitable."

JB


P.S. Sorry about the typos, no time to preview/edit.

Supermax,

Thanks for that quote from the Chodak book. Unfortunately with my PSA trending up over time, and the volume of the tumors, I don't think AS is an option for me.

Hi,

I had a meeting with my urologist this morning. He's aware of my interest in Active Surveillance and in alternative therapies, and in my investing time in confirming Gleason 6s all around (Epstein). He took the lead in asking me if I had decided on a course of treatment.

I repeated I'm interested in AS and alternative therapies (diet & herbs & vits) and I'm encouraged by the confirmed Gleason 6s all around. With no decision from me about RP or radiation or other conventional treatment, he then explained what he said were some major misconceptions on my part (in his opinion). Those being:

1. I'm not really a candidate for Active Surveillance because of the high volume of Prostate Cancer as revealed by the original biopsy three pathology reports (original, 2nd opinion, 3rd opinion by Epstein [5 cores 90% cancer, 1 core 80% cancer), and, most of all, because of the palpable tumor he felt with his fingers during a rectal exam this past June. That's the slam dunk evidence of a serious problem, in his view.

2. He said Gleason scores are meaningless when his digital exam pre-biopsy provided him palpable evidence of a tumor in my prostate which he felt with his fingers. He said it doesn't matter if I'm a Gleason 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, or 10. Feeling a tumor in my prostate during a rectal exam trumps everything else including Gleason 6s all around reported by Epstein and/or low PSA scores too.

3. Asked about what I could expect without surgery or other interventionist treatments, he said that by no later than 10-15 years out, it's likely my PC will metastasize. That comment had me ecstatic since I was expecting him to say if I didn't have surgery promptly my prostate contained cancer would metastasize within 6 months to a year. I'd be good with 10-15 more years!

4. My enthusiasm was dampened with his remark I've got a 50% chance of dying without a strong conventional treatment response. I don't remember if he attached a time period to the "50% chance of dying" comment. He must have. Of course, I've got a 100% chance of dying eventually, so I'll get a clarification on that comment.

5. I mentioned, somewhat awkwardly, that I'm considering another urologist/surgeon partner in his very respected practice for the actual surgery (if I decide to go for surgery). My 2nd opinion medical oncologist who knows all the members of my urologist's team said my urologist was a known for great kidney surgery, but a partner of his, let's call him Dr. Smith [not his real name], is "a rock star among regional PC surgeons, and he's the one I should have do it (if I have it done).

6. He said if I go for a DaVinci nerve-sparring RP, he doesn't see sparring the nerves on the one side of my prostate that is pushing into my bladder cavity (from looking at the CT scan image). When I asked if this means the likelihood of Erectile Dysfunction (ED) he said, "Yes." Depressing news that.

7. Other practicals were I'd be out of the hospital after one day, and recovering at home over the next 3-5 weeks. This stunned me a bit since I've been thinking if I have the DaVinci RP on a Friday, I'm up and around and back to work the following Monday. It never occurred to me I might be out recovering for 3-5 weeks. Catheter out in one week.

8. I'm currently T2b stage, meaning the tumor has spread to more than 1/2 of one lobe of the prostate but not to both sides.

* * *

I went in to the appointment confident in my alternative choices (diet + herbs + vits + yoga + positive thinking + I-create-my-reality-with-my-thoughts). And with no illusions about my urologist agreeing with me. He's adamant that diet doesn't influence prostate cancer. He said, "You might find anecdotal evidence of someone who stopped the growth or reversed their prostate cancer, by following some sort of special diet, but there are no clinical trials out there to confirm that diet is going to make any difference in outcome. Modern Medicine does not support these untested alternative therapies."

Early in the meeting he said his approach is, "I treat you like I'd treat my brother or myself or anyone in my family. Given the volume of your cancer, and mainly that I palpably felt a tumor in your prostate with my fingers, I'd get going on a (conventional) treatment." He didn't have to say, "soon" or "as soon as possible" but that's clearly what he meant.

I'm a little stunned I'm now seriously considering having a DaVinci Radical Prostactomy done.

I was encouraged by my urologist's comment about "If you do nothing [he views all my dietary efforts as my doing nothing] it is likely your cancer will metastasize in 10-15 years." I'll take that outcome in a heartbeat.

But the overpowering impression he left with me today is I'm playing with fire by not getting my cancerous prostate gland surgically removed pretty darn fast. There was no question whatsoever that's what he would do in my shoes, and what he would recommend his brother do in my shoes, with my numbers and scores and everything. It all seemed to always come back to, "You've got a palpable, known, felt, tumor there." Unspoken was, "Stop screwing around with lycopenes and selenium and low fruit and now eggs and no dairy and lots of veggies, and all of that." If he intended to make a very strong impression on me today, he succeeded. He's a very bright guy, a nice guy, and I know I'm often easily persuaded about matters. So I'll let all this percolate for a week or two. He was looking for a decision from me today and he didn't get one.

I've got an appointment in two weeks with the "rock star" prostate surgery partner of his. I'm going to sit with everything and let my intuition tell me which way to go.

Does anybody know whether having a fair amount of cancer in half of their prostate, like I do, is enough to make a person pretty much exhausted a lot of the time? Yesterday I had lots more energy than today. I've had a big day with my urologist meeting today, but still, just walking around this afternoon, I just don't have the strength I'm used to. Then again, my diet has changed drastically in the last 6 weeks: no meat, no fish, no fowl, no eggs, no dairy, no fruit; lots of veggies, seaweed, tumeric, cayenne, grains, garlic, onions, garlic. Sounds on typing this that I could have a protein deficiency happening. I'll add beans to the grains and presto, complete protein. Nuts too, soy.

Bill

_____________________________________________
70 years in this body I've only just recently
properly appreciated -- better late than never!
Prostate biopsy procedure late July 2014
Diagnosed Prostate Cancer early August 2014
Prostate nodule 7/2014, 6 /2014, 4/2014

PSA history:
1/08 4.6
4/08 6.4
7/08 3.5
12/09 2.5
2/11 4.4
4/12 3.2
4/14 5.4
8/14 5.1
9/3/14 4.9

CT & bone scan 8/12/2014 negative

1st Pathology Report (8/1/2014) on 7/28/14 biopsy
4 cores Gleason 6 (3+3), 69%, 75%, 100%, 100%
2 cores Gleason 7 (3+4), 66%, 88%

1st Second Opinion Pathology Report (8/26/2014) on 7/28/14 biopsy
6 cores Gleason 6 (3+3), 77%, 77%, 78%, 78%, 95%, 95%

2nd Second Opinion (or 3rd overall) Pathology Report (9/12/2014, Johns Hopkins) on 7/28/2014 biopsy.
6 cores Gleason 6 (3+3),
A. prostatic adenocarcinoma, 90%, 80%
B. prostatic adenocarcinoma, 90%, 90% ("perineural invasion identified in this case")
C. prostatic adenocarcinoma, 90%, 90%

Hi Super Max,

Thanks for the encouragement,

"keep on your good diet and lifestyle path"

Yup, I plan to. By the way, I took a friend with me to the meeting yesterday with my urologist, and she remembered clearly what she said he said about, in his opinion, the urgency of my situation. She said I had asked him "What do the statistics says about someone in my situation -- palpable tumor on one side of my prostate my urologist felt on DRE (digital rectal exam) [the "bend over" routine], Gleason 6s all around, last PSA 4.9 and going down since last April?" My friend said my urologist's response to that question was,

"If you don't get that tumor removed, taken out, you've got a 50% chance of dying from it."

I said to my friend last night, "I felt he was making an unambiguous strong, clear recommendation, for immediate surgery, the DaVinci robot-assisted Radical Prostectomy procedure." She agreed that's what she heard too. She said, and it fits my memory too, he didn't said anything about seeds, about hormonal, about chemo, except he did say, and this isn't an exact quote,

"I'll be grabbing any cancer I see outside the prostate too. In conjunction with that, if we miss anything, we'll want to get you on radiation therapy to clean up any little bits of cancer that we somehow missed during the surgery."

It's a little much for me to go, in 24 hours, from looking forward to Active Surveillance, and alternative treatments, and no surgery, no radiation, no chemo, no hormonal, to a 180 degree turn, DaVinci Radical Prostectomy and the surgeon grabbing the nerves too on one side [meaning Erectile Dysfunction is likely too as a side effect of the surgery], plus follow up radiation, if needed.

Thanks, Super Max, for your encouragement I stay positive, keep on my lifestyle changes, keep up with the diet I've been enjoying (and the good feelings that come with that).

I'm about 99 percent decided I'll have the surgery to have my prostate removed.

I'm reminded of a Charlie Brown comic strip years ago where Charlie Brown is standing on the pitcher's mound on a baseball diamond and complaining to Nancy that LIFE isn't like baseball. Nancy responds with, "LIFE -- you don't get a chance to warm up." It's one of those piercing reminders that LIFE is always happening Now. Everything is always happening Now. The hippy dippy take on that is Live Now, the past is old and gone. The future isn't here yet. Be Present. Live in the Moment. NOW, NOW, NOW.

Being present to the current moment is, to mix my metaphors, so to speak, is like what a Supreme Court justice said when asked, "What's your definition of ****ography?", he responded, "I know it when I see it."

I had the image in my mind when my urologist was making the case I needed surgery NOW. My mind was squirming and doing it's utmost to translate his direct point -- Surgery NOW -- into something else, anything else. But I couldn't do it. He had gotten his message across. My Gleason 6s were a sentimental dream of the past, as are my relatively low and decreasing PSAs. I felt if I didn't have a friend of mine in the room with me, he would have been even more explicit and persuasive.

"Bill, what do I have to say to get through to you? I felt the tumor with my own hand in June. You are out of time here. Be sensible. Get the surgery, get that tumor taken out before the end of the year, November would be good." He didn't say that in words, but that was his crystal clear message. I guess I'm grateful to him for that. My friend said she saw him wince when I said I wanted his "rock star" partner to do the surgery if I had the surgery. He's been my urologist for six years, and was after me for six years to have a biopsy, which I finally agreed to this past July. He was right to be bugging me all that time. I think of him as a friend.

I hear you, Super Max, that you are going through something similar in the sense that you have been hoping for an Active Surveillance approach . . . but maybe you aren't going to be able to go that route. Important to keep that positive, upbeat state of mind. Like Nancy's point in the Peanuts Charles Schultz cartoon,

Welcome to LIFE. You don't get a chance to warm up. So make the most of it.

Bill