Supplements: PBS Documentary

Many of you take supplements. For those interested, here is a link to a PBS documentary which raises a number of questions about supplements

www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/film/supplements-and-safety/

dude1969 said...
It's really a shame, because there is plenty of anecdotal information on traditional medicines, tonics, and folk cures that seem "real" and are the basis for prescription drugs that involve herbs, in particular. But this "industry" is dirty, clearly, and the fact that what they advertise only gets into the bottle in some degree about 30% of the time, rarely in the correct amount, indicates the buyer needs to really beware.

What was really eye-popping to me was the vitamin E and prostate cancer comments the one dr made.

I missed it on the broadcast and forgot about the episode. Thx for posting it, Tim.

And if all of that is not bad enough, how about all of the folks who have serious SEs or even die each year from the FDA approved(as safe and effective) prescription drugs? Plus sometimes- and i base this somewhat on personal experience- even though the drugs have significant risks, they are not always effective. Then periodically we hear of this or that "approved" drug being pulled from the market a year or two after it's release, after they find out it was not so safe after all. So it seems we may be in a bind either way we go!

For a personal example: remember when they used to advertise (ask your doctor!) Oracea on TV all the time? (have not seen those adds in a while). So I went to the dermatologist for my red forehead/cheek skin, Rosacea, and he prescribes that pill for me, along with uber expensive creams. Cost hundreds of dollars for a few months supply. Turns out Oracea is nothing but a very low dose time release form of the $10(at that time) doxycycline. By making it time release, the manufacturers were able to get a new patent on it and run the price through the roof again, probably about $200 PER MONTH!. Just for the pill, plus mucho dinero for the creams.

I took it for a few months, and sadly the results for me were zero. It may do good for many folks, but for me the results were zero. So for zero results, I paid hundreds to sign on for these possible SEs:
www.webmd.com/drugs/2/drug-144579/oracea-oral/details#side-effects

Somebody said...
Upset stomach, nausea, diarrhea, or mild headache may occur. If any of these effects persist or worsen, notify your doctor or pharmacist promptly.

Remember that your doctor has prescribed this medication because he or she has judged that the benefit to you is greater than the risk of side effects. Many people using this medication do not have serious side effects.

Tell your doctor right away if you have any serious side effects, including: sunburn (sun sensitivity), difficult/painful swallowing, brown/gray tooth discoloration, blue/gray/brown discoloration of the skin/lips/tongue/gums, unusual tiredness, new signs of infection (e.g., fever, chills, persistent sore throat), change in the amount of urine, pink urine, hearing changes (e.g., ringing in the ears, decreased hearing), easy bruising/bleeding, severe stomach/abdominal pain, persistent nausea/vomiting.

Tetracycline drugs such as doxycycline may rarely cause a serious increase in pressure inside the skull (intracranial hypertension-IH). The risk of this side effect is greater for women of childbearing age who are overweight or who have had IH in the past. If IH develops, it usually goes away after doxycycline is stopped; however, there is a chance of permanent vision loss or blindness. Get medical help right away if you have: persistent/severe headache, vision changes (such as blurred/double vision, decreased vision, sudden blindness), persistent nausea/vomiting.

This medication may rarely cause a severe intestinal condition (Clostridium difficile-associated diarrhea) due to a type of resistant bacteria. This condition may occur during treatment or weeks to months after treatment has stopped. Do not use anti-diarrhea products or narcotic pain medications if you have any of the following symptoms because these products may make them worse. Tell your doctor right away if you develop: persistent diarrhea, abdominal or stomach pain/cramping, blood/mucus in your stool.

Use of this medication for prolonged or repeated periods may result in oral thrush or a new vaginal yeast infection (fungal infections). Contact your doctor if you notice white patches in your mouth, a change in vaginal discharge, or other new symptoms.

A very serious allergic reaction to this drug is rare. However, get medical help right away if you notice any symptoms of a serious allergic reaction, including: rash, skin lesions/sores, itching/swelling (especially of the face/tongue/throat), severe dizziness, trouble breathing, new or worsening swelling/pain in the joints, swollen glands, chest pain, fast/irregular heartbeat.

This is not a complete list of possible side effects. If you notice other effects not listed above, contact your doctor or pharmacist.

And it is probably wise to research the companies you buy your supplements from, and decide if you trust them to provide quality. It might also be helpful to stick with bigger companies that would have a lot to lose law suit, profit and reputation wise if it was discovered that they were selling unsafe products and/or fake products. And finally, it is probably best to do your best to get most of what you need from the appropriate foods. No one can fake that yet, nor is there much incentive by big broccoli to do so. But we are not completely safe even with that. What with the possibility that foods may not have the expected nutrients depending on where and how they are grown, the possibility of contamination, if grown in poor soil (and other problems)it may take a ton of the nutrients to get what you need if it can even be done, etc etc.

I have just posted another thread a study by Ornish where he got very impressive results with his diet and lifestyle changes for 1 year, which included use of some supplements which have gotten some pretty bad press previously. So it would seem that possibly they are not all that harmful and maybe even helpful, as this was- I believe- an RCT with 1/2 getting all of the life style changes and 1/2 changing nothing and simply getting the normal close observation. But even if the supplements included(Selenium, Vit E and C and a fairly large amount of omega 3 ---3 gms daily) were not harmful, or even actually helpful, it does not solve our problem of finding a source of whatever we decide to use that is trustworthy. There are no doubt going to be some scam artists out there.

And as you can see from my previous post, I don't have all that much confidence in the FDA either. There are just too many billions of dollars at stake to not expect some problems or maybe even corruption, IMO. It does not seem uncommon to me that drugs are FDA approved- based on studies sometimes from people with connections, financial or otherwise, to the drug company- and released with great fanfare and TV advertising, only to either be pulled from the market a year or 2 or 5 later, or a black box warning being attached to the drug info. This happens after sometimes many injuries or even deaths have occurred. Just how does that happen after the FDA has declared a certain drug both safe and effective?

And of course, as for supplements, we have nothing but the market place protecting us. Which is to say, if I and a lot of other people start dropping dead from the Vitamin D that Wal-Mart sells me, that may well prove financially disastrous for both WM and whoever they have manufacture their vitamins. They obviously would prefer that does not happen. Still, we are on our own, with no way to discover this until the numbers are large, except maybe with food if we can find uncontaminated sources of that which actually contain enough of the nutrient we are after. But it is just so much easier for my lazy self to take a pill than it is for me to eat the right foods in the right amounts and avoid the wrong ones, assuming I can figure out which is which.

Post Edited (BillyBob@388) : 1/28/2016 8:32:33 AM (GMT-7)

The best advice I have heard on supplements is simple. Ask your doctor to run blood panels to see if you need any. Common deficiencies are calcitriol (lack of vitamin D), potassium, and other similar areas and the common cause is dietary. Although people that live the smaller latitudes tend to have vitamin D issues due to less exposure to the sun.


I frequently stop by Walgreens and CVS stores vitamin and supplements miles and see several prostate related product selling at as much as 60.00 per month. Common ingredients include Vitamin E and Selenium ~ two agents in the SELECT trial that have been shown to increase risk for aggressive prostate cancer.

I personally consider vitamins and supplements have a role but to an individual certainly not a general population. Get blood tests and see if you need whatever...And if you don't need anything ~ keep the coins in your pocket.

Tony, to your point about prostate supplements. Most of them also contain saw palmetto, which does have the practical effect of easing BPH symptons--and many docs suggest it for patients with BPH (mine did). What is less well known is that saw palmetto, like some of the prescription BPH drugs, reduces PSA roughly 50%, so if one is tracking PSA as part of PC screening, it would be possible to miss a trigger point. That happened to me.

Yes, my PSA doubled annually 3 years in a row (went from 1 to 2 to 3.3) and then I was told that because I was on saw palmetto my final PSA should have been more like 6. Definitely changes one risk perception.