Survivor's Guilt: EXPERIENCES ?

Hello ~

Over time, we've lost some of our loyal friends on the forum to prostate cancer.

I've seen the fellows here expressing their feelings of loss --- and missing those who used to be active contributors here on the forum. As I read back over some past threads, some of our members here stated that they were truly feeling SURVIVOR'S GUILT ... the loss of a friend, involved in the fight.

I thought it might be helpful, now and for others in the future, to express some of our first-hand experiences with SURVIVOR'S GUILT ... specifically ... lost friends, family members, work colleagues, community members, or forum members ... I think the experience known as SURVIVOR'S GUILT emerges AFTER you face a diagnosis yourself and THEN lose someone who was also involved in the battle ...

In my case, I now feel much more CONNECTED to others who have cancer, since my diagnosis. I've lost three teaching colleagues who taught next to me for many years ... losing them was very hard on me, to say the least. Recently, our school district lost one of our young students to cancer ... a tough loss on the entire community, beyond words ...

I now have long-time friends engaged in this battle ... friends from different chapters of my life ... they are my BAND OF BROTHERS ... we've lost BROTHERS here over time ... others may not understand the comraderie and kinship WE feel towards one another ... when we lose a friend in this fight, it can take an emotional toll ... as many of us have experienced, past and present.

In my case, coping with the loss isn't an overnight process ... I try to find ways to honor their memory, in some meaningful way ... that seems to help me honor their memory and cope with my own feelings of personal loss.

Over time, I also realize that continuing to FACE FORWARD and to keep REACHING OUT to others in this battle is valuable ... in person or through this website ... this becomes another way to honor the valiant fight of others we have lost.

Many of our members here report feeling a sense of loss ... emptiness ... true sadness at the loss of a fellow friend in this fight ...

I thought this might be a meaningful thread topic ... a chance to learn from each other and share ways to cope with the loss of our friends and comrades we encounter along the way ...

Your thoughts ? I know we've all faced some losses, over the course of time ...

Sent with my best, always,
"CYCLONE FAN" ~ Iowa State University

survivors guilt is turning the attention away from those who who did not survive to the one who expresses it {guilt} in words thought and actions...imo... it... at its basic core is...self serving...consciously or unconsciously...I could say more...but I would have to quote Jack Nickolson's exchange with Tom Cruise...
But if that is what folks want to dwell on...in all its morbidity...

As I understand it, Survivor's guilt, or survivor's remorse, is a form or aspect of PTSD. In it, a person who survives a random event--such as a plane crash or a firefight on the battlefield--feels guilt or blames themselves for surviving when others did not. In popular culture, we see it expressed by "Lieutenant Dan" in Forrest Gump, who proclaims that he was supposed to die out there.

I've never experienced it, but I have seen what looks like it, at least as I understand it.

Redwing is spot on .......

This is an important topic, dispite the venom. Survivors guilt is real. Tied right in there with mortality realization and denial of "that could be me".

For sure, when you find yourself on the same path as other folks, and together you all face the same dangers and hurtles it is very upsetting when someone doesn't make it, especially since you are all committed to each other, whether the oath was stated or unstated.

We feel that we left a brother behind, or perhaps we could have contributed something more towards their survival that may have kept them alive.

Battle brothers go through it to some degree everytime one is lost in battle.

Really, there are only 2 mindsets in war. Everyman for himself, or as a group we can overcome.

The group one comes at emotional costs, but the victory is always sweeter.

Sometimes I think survivors guilt is the wrong terminology. When a group of army buddies are caught in battle and only a couple survive the guilt that those soldiers feel is real. They come home feeling like they should have died with their buddies on the battlefield.
In my travels and especially due to the fact that I am a musician, I have been able to participate in many cancer benefits. The hardest ones are always the children. Seeing children dying of cancer when they haven't started school yet is hard. Seeing a young mother in her mid 30s with two small children and stage 4 breast cancer is hard. Telling her to stay positive sounds hollow as she endures treatment after failed treatment. She knows that her children will grow up and she won't be there to see it. Only the most jaded among us cannot be affected by her bravery! Watching our friends die because no treatment worked for them while we have reaped the benefits of multiple successful treatments is hard.
Tony Crispino's motto is stay positive. Jordan's motto live thrive survive and my motto live it loud are all really positive statements but the fact is that although we want to convey that message of hope and we pray the treatments are successful 50% will fall below the median life extension and 50% will exceed it. A small percentage will exceed it many times over.
I do not feel guilty for surviving. I feel righteous anger that others did not. I feel compassion fatigue each time a new guy comes aboard with late stage disease and a poor prognosis. I want to encourage and give hope. Sometimes the results are positive and sometimes not. The higher the Gleason score the harder it becomes to give encouragement.
We make friends only to lose them. In the process a hardening of our hearts occurs. It is a defense mechanism.
Yesterday, for me, was a very bad day. I felt a kinship with Jordan. We exchanged a few emails. We talked a few times. I believed he would do well. He didn't and now he is gone. Why??? Why did he fulfill my original prognosis while I have exceeded all expectations? Not Guilt! Just heart wrenching sadness.
In society we must give everything a name. In the process we marginalize and cheapen what it really is. It is love and it goes beyond cancer and beyond the grave.

I’ll add my comment below on the original topic, but this comment by trailguy caught my eye:

trailguy said...
Some of us need to feel guilty, however, and will take up any excuse to do that.

Frankly, I think that this topic—cancer martyrdom (which I believe is the equivalent of trailguy’s comment)—would be a much more interesting topic for this board. This psychological phenomena has been written about, although not widely…I did find this link to HW/PC discussion on the topic from 2012 in a thread from MsWorryWart titled "Interesting Article - Victim or Martyr." Unfortunately, the Livestrong article link in the original post there seems to have been re-directed, but there was some interesting dialogue and quotes from the article:
www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=35&m=2593125


But woe be unto me to go off-topic, so I’ll comment on the original posting about “Survivor’s Guilt.” Mine was, perhaps, different than others have described here so far, but I don’t think it’s really that different from what many thousands have men have actually felt, based on comments posted here and elsewhere.

Mine was more embarrassment. Once I became well-informed, well-educated about the true nature of favorable-risk PC like my case (diagnosed 3+4, several cores positive, moderate %, low under 10 PSA), I was a bit embarrassed about all the drama created in the early days of my diagnosis. I fell victim to being “branded” with the cancer label, and I slid right down the slippery slope into nodding my head every time my doctor said something, and signing up for a radical, aggressive treatment within only months of my diagnosis.

“I have cancer” I wrote to my friends and relatives. Such drama. All for a case which probably did not need any aggressive treatment at all. Today, and if I had gotten good guidance then, I would be on Active Surveillance to see whether or not I was amongst the roughly 1/3 of men in this category who might actually eventually need treatment with all it’s negative, life-altering side effects and all.

Today, my primary flavor of survivor’s guilt is embarrassment.

A good friend of mine was murdered a few years ago. He was a saint of a man. In every aspect a far better man than I. Why him, why not me, the world would be a better place with him still here. My contributions to the human race are minuscule compared to him.

A 14 year old girl died of brain cancer, she was very bright and had a great future in front of her. I was 55 at the time of her death, my useful contributing years are largely past. She had potential, I've largely wasted my time on earth.

So, I feel really bad that they are gone, the world would be a far better place with them in it. But the good Lord has left me here, and I ponder why? Is that guilt? To some extent, yes.

Tall Allen said...


I'll take it one step further - I reject the "war" metaphor for cancer. It is not a war - it's a disease - and I see no benefit, and possibly some harm, in treating it as anything other than the disease it is. If someone dies of the disease, is he a "loser?" or a "soldier who didn't do his duty and fight hard enough?" If someone decides to forgo that last round of chemo, is he a "deserter?" If someone decides the pain is too great and he wants an assisted suicide, is he a "traitor?" And what about those who take a 5ARi or are on active surveillance or watchful waiting, are they cowards who refuse to fight? In war, the enemy may be defeated - are we "bad soldiers" because we don't yet have the tools to cure metastatic PC? And now we are being told we suffer from "survivor's guilt?"

Moreover, in war, we fight together for something greater than one person's life - how does the metaphor apply at all? In war, if I drop my gun, I can rely on my "battle brother" to shoot at the enemy instead - if cancer kills me or if I decide I've had enough, no one "fights" for me. Each of us deals with our cancer in the way he believes is best - there is no General who sets the strategy for everyone.

We've become so inured to the metaphor, that it is hard to get away from it. I know I've used this kind of language myself - and I'm a writer -- I should know better. We say we are "victims," we "battle" it. Personally, I don't feel like a victim. I feel like I came down with a disease, and I treated it the best way I knew how. I didn't fight-- I studied, gathered info, spoke to experts, and chose a therapy.

While 'war' and 'battle' and 'victim' can be useful metaphors (consider Paul Fussell's Doing Battle) for many things, they have been overused, thus watered down. Same goes for the word "addiction", which has real meaning when used appropriately. Nowadays we see it deployed for everything: "I'm sooooo addicted to chocolate", etc.

compiler said...
Allen:

I agree. Yet, when they have one of those "walk for a cure" type thing (a very worthwhile event), they refer to the marchers as survivors. Ugh.

But...that's just me!

Mel

Which is why I don't participate in "Relay for Life".

TA, you're right, language is vitally important. We, as a society, has gotten lazy about language, and no longer have the ability to find nuance in our words. The metaphors are somewhat useful, but I also see how overuse has cheapened much of it.

Just like this thought: I observed to a friend the other day that it used to be that official proclamations to fly flags at half-staff was reserved for major events. Now, individuals could do it for 'local' reasons--an example might be a firehouse that lowers it's flag when one it's firefighters died on the job. Nowadays, it seems like we're always lowering the flag for pretty much any event...which ultimately reduces it's impact and value.

I didn't survive anything. I had a treatment.
but now I feel guilty for not have guilt.

And Todd, there are times I really worry about you...

Nicely said Lieutenant. Even where I work we get hung up these buzz words because they are catchy and can be thrown out easily to convey a point but are often used out of context.

It is easy to say survivors guilt and say it with a sense of dis attachment. In reality we are simply grieving the loss of our friend.

Im glad I was noted as others along with others...its usually the others...who precede the followers who when all is cleared by the others are aptly named as the leaders??? no that can't be right...yes its true...they are all here...they are all....they are.....they......


Good Lord can you not see how easy y'all can be read...can you not see an image in your mirror...
I must learn poker..

A life is a terrible thing to lose...by default.....