So, just what is a "heart (and supposedly also prostate) healthy" diet?

So, why am I reminded of this and bringing this up again? Two reasons: another thread from May 18 about veganism(which is also supposed to be heart healthy, right?) NOT helping PC, and our 50 year old daughter's(my step daughter actually) recent experience with LCHF. Her father died pretty early from heart disease, so they have always kept a pretty close watch on her and her brother.

A couple of years ago she tried Atkins. She seemed to be following it very strictly for a couple of months, but did not have anywhere near the success she should have. Mainly, just stopped gaining but not much actual fat loss. I was frustrated, insisting that if she ate very low carb for more than a few days, her body would be forced into burning fat for energy. I figured she must be doing something wrong(or possibly cheating). So she quit and went back to other low fat/low calorie approaches, but the weight just started piling on again.

But about 3 months ago, she decided to try it again. She basically ate zero carbs. Started seeing some pretty good results, and this time got herself some keto sticks to test her urine for ketones. I kept insisting that no matter what the scales said(which can vary greatly with water shift), if the sticks showed ketones(degrees of purple), that meant she has burned some fat. She would try to add carbs back, but it was amazing how little it took to knock her out of ketosis, much less than I would have thought. So she would just go back to almost zero.

Anyway, worked like a charm this time. She did do an occasional fast for part of a day, but when she finally ate it was almost all fat and protein. Carbs were almost zero, with just the occasional small amount of low carb vegy. She did not have much trouble with hunger, and in a few months she was down over 30 lbs and looks and feels great. But, she just so happened to be due a check up with lab, and by a lucky fluke she had another one 3 months ago, right before she started the HFLC diet. So I was very curious to see what her lab would show. Though I bet her a $ that her TGLs would be cut in half(spoiler alert: I lost that bet by a couple of points, but close): Here are her results, I will try to get it in columns:

3/18....................................6/18

LDL 89........................................105

HDL 56.........................................74

TCL 169.......................................192

TGL 118..........................................67

So, the total Cholesterol went up about 14%(23 points), so that looks bad, right? But then I see that the HDL("good") accounted for almost all of this, going up a whopping 32% or 18 points. Or, the ratio improved from a very good 3 to 1 to a gret 2.6 to 1, a net win! This new ratio is apparently improved from very good to ideal, from what I have read.

Without considering whether or not the LDL increase from 89 to 105(16 points) is the supposedly protective kind or not, at first the LDL increase looks a little scary, an increase of 18% in just 3 months! But then I see that the HDL increased 18 points or 32%, and the ratio improved from 1.58/1 to 1.4/1. Again, 1st #s are excellent, but the post hi fat diet # has actually improved.

And then there is the spectacular drop in TGL, Almost cut in half! Does anyone know: is it even possible to lower TGLs this degree with a drug? How about with a low fat diet?

I would summarize this as either a net improvement or a net large improvement in heart disease risk, at least as much as we are able to guess that risk based on lab #s. After < 3 months of hi fat/low carb eating, and not low calorie, however much it took to satiate. And, surely that large amount of belly fat lost has not hurt her any either. What I would love to see is how her fasting insulin(not measured) has changed. I'm betting significantly.

So, what do you think? What really is heart healthy eating?

Post Edited (BillyBob@388) : 7/16/2018 1:41:51 PM (GMT-6)

Our brain cells need glucose to work. Glucose comes from breaking down carbohydrates and therefore low and zero-carb diets have a strong potential for negative impact on learning, thinking and memory. Something I do not want to risk so I keep eating all kinds of carbohydrates but avoid food with added sugar.

I agree with "In the Shop". It's scary the more you research it, that the Standard American Diet with the USDA's, Big Pharma and Big Food support may be the problem.

"The Link below is just one of the places you can find plenty of the scientific evidence behind low-carb and keto diets. There is now loads of evidence to support their routine use for weight loss and metabolic disease. There’s also good evidence to suggest that the fear of natural saturated fats has been a mistake, and that there’s no general health or weight benefits of a low-fat diet."

/www.dietdoctor.com/low-carb/science

For a number of years I've subscribed to The Tufts University Health and Nutrition newsletter. See link below

The diet that seems to come up most often as the healthiest is the Mediterrranean Diet. A lot of dietary choices are going to be based on individual situations.

The only major change I've made recently is to increase protein intake to at least 100 g of protein daily. It seems to help my energy level and keeps me fuller for longer.

My personality is unsuited to a nutritional plan that is too complicated. It seems to me from his posts, that Mr Clay, who posts here occasionally, has made diet a full-time job. Not for me.

Pick your poison--meat, sugar, acid foods, mercury-laden fish, etc. then enjoy life!

/nutrition.tufts.edu/news/nutrition-newsletter

Post Edited (Tim G) : 7/16/2018 5:22:15 PM (GMT-6)

if exercising....my body tells me what it wants/needs....and tells me what it doesn't. If I obey it...good things happen.

anything else is genes. genes trump food

The Mediterranean is probably a great one for the long haul, especially compared to the low fat, low calorie diet recommended to us by most of our medical and governmental authorities for decades. It is fairly high fat, and not very high carb, compared to other recommended diets.

However, the numbers from several studies, confirmed by my personal experience, speak for themselves and really are- so far at least- beyond dispute. Also, unlike so many studies, these numbers are repeatable over and over. We can test them and repeat the results ourselves.

So, one question is: are high triglycerides a risk factor for heart disease, or not? Apparently, as our docs have often claimed, they are:
/www.cardiosmart.org/News-and-Events/2016/05/The-Danger-of-High-Triglycerides-for-People-with-Heart-Disease

Somebody said...
Published in Circulation: Cardiovascular Quality and Outcomes, this study investigated the health risks associated with high triglycerides. Triglycerides are a type of fat found in the blood, which are usually measured along with cholesterol levels. Many studies have linked high triglycerides to increased risk for heart disease and death, but the topic is highly controversial.................To help settle the debate, researchers analyzed data from a large study called the Bezafibrate Infarction Prevention (BIP) trial. Conducted in Israel, this study followed more than 15,300 patients with heart disease for 22 years. Upon enrollment, participants had their cholesterol and triglyceride levels tested, among other key health markers. For more than two decades, researchers used a national registry to track mortality data on study participants..... In general, triglycerides below 150 mg/dL are considered normal, while anything over 200 mg/dL is defined as high..........

Based on fasting triglyceride levels, participants were divided into five groups, ranging from low to extremely high triglyceride levels. In general, triglycerides below 150 mg/dL are considered normal, while anything over 200 mg/dL is defined as high.

After 22 years of follow-up, researchers found that elevated triglycerides were independently associated with mortality risk in patients with heart disease.

After taking into account factors like age and sex, survival rates for participants with low triglycerides (under 100 mg/dL) was 41% after 22 years. In contrast, survival rates for normal to extremely high triglycerides ranged from 37%–25%. Compared to patients with low triglycerides, patients with the highest triglyceride levels (>500 mg/dL) had 68% greater risk of death over the 22 year span.

Based on findings, authors conclude that triglycerides alone have a big impact on mortality risk for patients with heart disease..However, experts are cautious in interpreting results. The BIP trial was first started in 1990, before statins were widely used......

So, it appears it is something that is better if lower. Now, with no expensive prescription drugs or their SEs, my daughter was able to cut her already pretty low TGLs of 118 to 67(44% drop), in < 3 months of cutting carbs and eating hi fat. As well as increasing her good HDL by 32% from an already OK #. I know others who have done the same(including myself more than once), and there are studies out there backing this up with larger #s of people.

So, has anyone here been able to do this with a Mediterranean diet? I don't know, just asking, but somehow I doubt it. I'm almost certain not a soul here who has eaten a low fat(but plenty of carb) diet for years has been able to touch this. Not even if on prescription meds. I think Prato can actually speak to hat last part. Has any one here had such spectacular improvements in several important values by taking a prescription drug? If so, how much did those drugs help your waist line and blood pressure? Hers(waist line anyway, don't know about BP) dropped a whole lot. I can almost guarantee her BP, blood sugar, insulin and A1C also improved dramatically, but I don't have the #s handy to prove it.

This has all been accomplished not only without drugs, but without hunger, as she ate many a large steak- fat and all- during this period, with a few vegies to go with that steak, sometimes. And she looks like she is a very healthy 30-35 year old rather than 50.

So, based on lab tests, BP and waistline, which diet is the most heart healthy? Low fat? Mediterranean? Personally, I doubt it. But as always, I could be wrong. Plus, maybe some one knows of an example where someone drops their TGLs(from an already fairly low # to boot) by 44% in 3 months with some form of higher carb or low fat diet?

Post Edited (BillyBob@388) : 7/16/2018 6:40:12 PM (GMT-6)

Since I am not being fed via IV or stomach tube, I want something that is satisfying to eat--and reasonably healthy. Mediterranean is the meal ticket for me. Each individual must determine what works best given scientific evidence and their own situation. I do not have metabolic syndrome (a major issue if present), or heart disease, and do not need to lose weight.

LCHF (keto) diet uses lots of non-starchy veggies, fats, and proteins. The reduction in carbs does have an anti-inflammatory effect. There's no studies I know of that indicate this diet improves life span in anyway other than reducing the effects of things like diabetes, metabolic syndrome and similar.

Like all diets, not every can tolerate it. I know it will work for me.

At the least, I do encourage everyone to reduce carbs (especially sugars). That has a benefit for everyone.

Andrew

Some improvement in BP, but not enough yet to lower my meds.

Personally I am more interested in lowering blood sugar, triglycerides, and rising my HDL with is very low at the moment. I haven't asked for the LDL test yet. Going to let the diet run for a month or so before I check bloods.

Andrew

Oh, ITS, I forgot: you may not see much improvement in your blood sugar, not dramatic anyway. But that matters not. Because what may be more important is something they don't often measure: blood insulin. Your sugar could remain around the normal range, but the amount of insulin your body has to produce as it attempts to keep your blood sugar in a normal range(regardless of how many carbs you eat) might have been reduced drastically.

If so, that is a VERY good thing. If this has happened, it often shows up in seemingly unrelated #s, such as a lowered BP. Or (much as a reduced need for insulin either produced by the body or injected by diabetics), a reduced need for BP meds. And a lowered BP- or reduced need for BP meds- is a wonderful thing when it comes to overall health.

InTheShop said...
I'm expecting TGL to fall a lot and be the first. My levels were very, very high. Blood sugar will likely take longer to improve, but what I really what short term is to move away from the near diabetic levels I had in April.

What I'm enjoying at the moment is an increase in energy levels and mental alertness. I've had some weight loss and a loss of a couple of inches around the waist.

I figure the rest happens when it happens.

Andrew

Well, it certainly does not appear your experiment is hurting you so far. So, keep going for it Bro, and hopefully you will continue to report an improved over situation! Especially away from very high TGLs! And of course, away from those near diabetic blood sugars. I look forward to your good report.

P.S. I am about to read some over at your blog.

I didn't discover that book until after I wrote the blog post, but "The Big Fat Surprise ..." is on my reading list.

Andrew