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Posted 10/19/2018 8:20 PM (GMT 0)
I’ve been very tired, and have assumed it’s because I’m up at 4:15 every day, sleeping 5 hours a night, driving into manhattan then an hour to the office and putting in a full day
But I’m starting to wonder, last night I was out like a light at 9:30, so I slept almost 7 hours. Got my treatment, and went home. I’ve been relaxing all day, but I’m exhausted. I’m either too hot or too cold, I’m fidgety, uncomfortable sitting, and uncomfortable lying down, and my legs are like lead.
Last Friday night I popped a Xanax and slept 13 hours

I do seem to have the energy I need when I go to work.

Is this ADT fog? Or fatigue from radiation (I think it’s too early for that, I’m only 4 weeks into SRT. Or am o just tired because of my lack of sleep.
I know o should be doing a lot of walking, but very hard right now with a really bad knee, I’ve been doing physical therapy.
Any thoughts? ADT fog?, early radiation fatigue?
Posted 10/19/2018 8:35 PM (GMT 0)
all of the above.

sounds like the fatigue I had from RT - and I was a little brain fogged during RT. I remember my car battery dying one day after my session and not having a clue what to do about it. Finally I called my wife and asked her what to do. My RT fatigue set in around 4 weeks and lasted till about 2 weeks post treatment.

It also sounds like the reports from the guys on ADT. Exercise can help - maybe some upper body workouts or something since you've got the bad knee.

and get some sleep this weekend.

Andrew
Posted 10/19/2018 8:45 PM (GMT 0)
Prato,

As a forum vet who has recently and vociferously complained about the effects of ADT, I feel duty bound to respond. And my response is: I don’t know.

All my life, I’ve had periods where I wasn’t thinking clearly — some would say more than periods — couldn’t concentrate and felt like I was in a fog. Sometimes it was part of a cycle of stress, poor sleep, low exercise, bad habits, and depression, and hard to say whether the one came first or the other. I’ve had weeks like that on ADT. But I’ve also had good, productive weeks. I can’t say I’ve experienced a fog on ADT that was qualitatively different from other down times.

I’m eager to hear what other travelers on our journey have to say.
Posted 10/19/2018 9:58 PM (GMT 0)
I'm not saying your ADT or your SRT aren't potentially contributing factors, but from your description of your daily routine I'd say it's just being plain old tired from long days with little sleep. I'd guess it's just your body trying to tell you it needs to catch up. Aside from and before I ever had PCa, radiation, or ADT I've always been a night owl. When I was working - before I retired - I'd often be up late and then off to work on 4 or 5 hours sleep. But typically after a few days like that I'd have a crash when I was asleep by 10 or so.
Jim
Posted 10/19/2018 10:02 PM (GMT 0)
I agree with Andrew...it's all of the above. (Sometimes I feel my designated role here is to say, "I agree with Andrew.") Radiation + ADT + dealing with another round of treatment = fatigue. All of that takes either a degree of physical or mental energy.
Posted 10/19/2018 10:15 PM (GMT 0)
It was ketchup sleep...and stress...I don't get as much sleep as I should...I am probably over active which tends to overwind a tight spinning top anyway...I used to take benadryl...but stopped that and with a bit of reading I zonk out...I go to bed at 7pm usually and wake at 4am...up 3 times nightly on the money...but drink a lot of water right after the 3 whizzes...It cleans out the tubes in my system...in my view at least...some insomnia is very common as one ages...very common...btw...has anyone ever told you that you worry too much...tee hee...the fidgety may be a character trait...living and commuting in the NYC probably doesn't help either... I know I say this all the time...ya gots to find a method for sustained cardio...or it is seriously going to go down hill for you...generally speaking...with or without pca being in the equation o...you remember the piece i wrote quite a bit ago(think}...think about it...once you go down the road...its extremely difficult to go back up the road...imo its not too late...you have to prioritize what you KNOW is best for you...and by god do it...you are imo a classic case of push..push...push...you need to get on the train to "next stop Willobey ,,,the Twilight Zone classic...decades ago
Posted 10/19/2018 10:28 PM (GMT 0)
Thanks for the comments guys.

@SP, I thought only women have periods. Maybe it’s the ADT (j/k) 😂

@ Andrew, probably right, combo of all of the above

@logo, good thoughts thanks. What you said about cardio, I get that you are right, and that’s what concerns me. Physical Therapy guy put some kind of tape on my knee today, supposed to hold the kneecap in proper alignment, it made the knee a bit better. So I forced myself out if bed and did a short walk around the block, just under a mile. Seemed to help. But I stopped at 1 lap,cause the knee started to bother me, didn’t want to push. Hard to believe just 6 months ago my walks were 3- 4 miles and I was running and walking alternately on the treadmill.
Anyway, You r correct, I need to avoid the slippery slope.

Re worrying too much - negative. I think that’s a legacy item from my first year or so, here on HW. I just can’t shake the rep. For whatever reason, I’m pretty relaxed about things. If SRT doesn’t work, it will suck. But I’ll deal with it, when the time comes.

Haven’t been eating well either, a Nono on ADT. Gotta change that up.

Thanks for the thoughts.
Posted 10/19/2018 10:32 PM (GMT 0)
A Stop at Willoughby...season 1 episode 30...starring James Daily...Tim Daily's(wings) grandfather...Tyne Daily's (Gagney and Lacey) son...push...push...push....not good...things can happen fast...stay on or a bit ahead of the wave...its hard to play ketchup at life...yep the post is meant to scare ya
Posted 10/19/2018 10:36 PM (GMT 0)
I was doing a lot of editing...not sure if ya got the Willoughby connection...be carefull...if nothing else keep what Im saying in your mind...once it leaves the mind...its a real beech...I would retire...period...if I was you...and if you need to cut back on something...do it.. I for get your age...you must have retirement financial plans in place...again...aint that what you do for a living or is it IT....Hey my minds a bit whacked also
Posted 10/19/2018 10:47 PM (GMT 0)
Don't discount the effects of 'older' age catching up with you given your hectic schedule.

For the first time in my life, RT + ADT have conspired to make me feel old. Five months after treatments ended, it's starting to get better.
Posted 10/19/2018 10:59 PM (GMT 0)
One other point: You're going through a lot. Radiation, HT, a schedule that would kill most mortals. You should be tired.

Give yourself permission to be tired and get a little rest and maybe take a sick day or two. You don't have to be he-man warrior and do everything. It's okay to say, "this is too much, and I can only do this much."

Andrew
Posted 10/19/2018 11:08 PM (GMT 0)

Pratoman said...

@SP, I thought only women have periods. Maybe it’s the ADT (j/k) 😂


Ka-ching!
You mean I should be posting in the “blood in ejaculate” thread?
Posted 10/20/2018 2:55 PM (GMT 0)
I remember needing a nap most days even fairly early on during RT. Mentioned it during my weekly meetings with my RO and he pointed to the ADT being the primary culprit (odd, as he had started me on ADT eight months earlier, even before starting RT). Yes it made me feel tired, but mainly lost interest in just about everything.

Then around week six of RT the fatigue really kicked in. I found myself taking 2 to 3 hour naps every day after treatment. Then after treatment ended it lingered until I was put on 1,800mg daily of Gabapentin for another condition. Surprisingly, I was still able to take the grandkids to Universal Studios for three very full days... of course with a day off in between (M-W-F, studios... T,Th... hot tub).
Posted 10/20/2018 3:13 PM (GMT 0)
Logo, yeah, I get the Willoughby connection. I’ll stay ahead of it for sure. No waking up in a railcar from 100 years ago for me .

My plan to retire is firmly December 2019. But I’m starting to think September, with a big piece handed off to my partner in June

Yup, Gary I’m sure age has something to do with it.

Andrew, yeah, I’m going to slow down for a while, maybe cut back to working 2-3 days a week in the office and one day a week from home. Time to be good to myself for a while. It also force myself to get up and move around more when I’m not working.

I also realized last night, I’ve been coughing, sinuses stuffed, probably coming down with a cold, so that’s exacerbating this whole thing. I’m sure the immune system is compromised when doing this treatment.

Thanks for the comments, much appreciated.
Posted 10/20/2018 8:09 PM (GMT 0)
Ken, my personal recollection is that you were in a fog long before ADT............just sayin’

I found toward the end of radiation while on ADT and working full time I was running on empty. After the radiation stopped it improved, but low energy was a definite side effect of ADT. I was on for three years and then it took about 18 months for T to recover as did my energy. Hopefully you will do better as your run on ADT won’t be that long.
Posted 10/20/2018 9:42 PM (GMT 0)
Jack, thanks (I think ;-)

Yes, I have newfound respect for guys that do ADT long term.
Posted 10/20/2018 11:33 PM (GMT 0)
Since being on ADT I have found my memory is not as sharp as it once was. I find myself going into rooms forgetting what I came in for, forgetting peoples names. I can get to sleep, but cannot stay asleep, so I am prescribed some meds that keep me asleep once I fall asleep.

I have had sleep issues before this but once I retired within a week my blood pressure was down and I was sleeping like a baby, so yah I blame the ADT now for the above.
Posted 10/21/2018 1:01 AM (GMT 0)
A lot of the s/e's Im seeing here...Ive been going thru for at least a decade...which is before I was diagnosed with Pca...do not go gently into the night...but definitely...do go...come on what else ya got to do...Tuck?...live a little...the best is ALWAYS saved for last...Tarry not
Posted 10/21/2018 1:24 PM (GMT 0)
Hey Prato I thot you been in the fog for a long time! Now like me you can tell the wife its the Lupron fog when you don't get the honey do list done! LOL Hey its the Radiation I saw it last winter at the hope lodge started around 4 weeks didn't matter what kind of radiation you were getting or what kind of cancer. That's one of the reasons I encourage people to exercise as much as possible the people that were able to exercise made it thru radiation much easier the people that were not able to or didn't care to try had a much harder time. Get some sleep take care of your self don't want to end up with a cold pretty hard to lay still on the table when your coughing. I saw people that had to extend their time because of colds and pnuemonia kinda sucks when your living away from home dishing out money for food, gas and such.

Larry
Posted 10/21/2018 2:17 PM (GMT 0)
Prato,
In my case, with being on Lupron for 18 months, I vote for ADT as the culprit. My T level is at 6. I’m suffering those same effects you are. Being exhausted, uncomfortable, fidgety, legs feel like lead. I can fall asleep at a seconds notice during the day and then have trouble getting to sleep at night. Its a different way of life. One I’m having trouble adjusting to. But with my last Lupron shot (hopefully) coming this Tuesday, things should start getting better. In about a year and a half....
Must be something going around in the area. Quite a few people I know are coming down with that change of season cold thing. Sore throat, cough, sinuses. I’m sure it isn’t helping you get through this. Feel better. Take care of that cold.
Be happy you’re on the short course for ADT.
Posted 10/21/2018 2:56 PM (GMT 0)
@skypilot... everyone seems to think I’m in a fog without ADT, first Jack, now you. (I know a joke when I see one). Thanks for the comment. Unfortunately I’ve already got the cough Nd headcold, or sinus thing, if whatever it is.
Despite a bad knee, I’m pushing myself to walk 1-1 1/2 miles a day. Maybe mix in some stationary bike. Even if I have to do it in 10 minute increments

@ dogdays, yup, I’m thankful that it’s only 6 months of Firmagon (about to change to Lupron. I’ve got you beat btw, my last Testosterone result, was < 5 !!!. As I said elsewhere, I have a newfound respect for guys who go through long term ADT.

Lets hope this works for all of us and we get to put this crap in the rear view mirror.
Posted 10/21/2018 3:02 PM (GMT 0)
Im gonna take you at your word on not being able to shake the reputation...if you say you can chill...who am I to say you can't...I can't and wont...good on ya Prato
Posted 10/23/2018 7:51 PM (GMT 0)
Slight edit......went to see my MO today. Thought Iwas going for blood draw for PSA and T levels, and my last Lupron shot. Surprise.......no Lupron shot. Done.....hopefully for good. I was surprised. I thought for sure I had one mire shot. She offered to give me one if I wanted it. Said no thanks. I’ve had enough. She said side effects should start easing in the next few months. Hope she’s right. Got a congrats from the doc for surviving 18 months of Lupron.
Now.....to watch and wait for NADIR to come along.
Posted 10/23/2018 8:36 PM (GMT 0)
Well the condition that originally prompted me to start this thread, was no ADT five at all. Turns out it was just effects of the onset of a chest cold and cough. Now that that’s resolving I feel fine to me is the lack of energy no n now that that’s resulting I feel fine to me is no lack of energy no, no nuttin’.
Posted 10/23/2018 10:47 PM (GMT 0)
so you've moved from negative to zero ...
That would be a positive move ...
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