Now I am in Panic Mode About My Incontinence... Help.

Calm down.  You can't believe everything you read in those books.  People scare themselves to death reading those books.  Four to six months is a more reasonable expectation for  good continence.  After that it tapers off.  Don't be too hard on your urologist.  We can't all be experts and neither can the doctors.  We just do the best we can.  Your situation sounds normal.  The percentage of people who are totally continient at 2 weeks is very small.  Like I said, "those books will scare you to death".  Keep doing the kegels and it will happens in it own time. 

Thats my little bit.  You'll be getting plenty more posts.

Gene -

what jackcc said.

There are few, very few here who were continent at 2 weeks. Get Dr. Walsh's book and you'll see the difference between the two doctors statements. Do some authors pump up their numbers to look better? Is there some sort of ego thing going on in some statements made? Maybe.

Don regained continence pretty well, we thought, and it took him probably 4 months to be completely dry. The fact that 8 weeks out you can rise from a sitting position and make it to the bathroom (even if you do have to hurry) is good.


Sounds like you'll be fine, Gene, just take a deep breath and relax!

jackcc, M. Kat, myman, Ceadar Chopper..

You all said something which helped me to "calm down". I accepted His peace before I slept last night, but when I awakened and read your posts this morning, I was reassured. Each of you posted something very helpful.

Ceadar Chopper, you mentioned the "elavator" form of the Kegals. I don't quite understand what you are talking about, but I think I would like to try them. I do Kegals by holding for ten seconds, realeasing for ten seconds, and doing this ten times, then ten short bursts of holding and releasing. Can you explain the elavator form or direct me to a site that explains it? I can only hope I am doing the Kegals right. I think I have located two distinct, but related muscles down there: One seems to control the rectum and the other seems to attempt to control urine. When I was leaving the hospital, my surgeon had me to turn around and he inserted his finger in my rectum and told me to squeeze and then said, "that's the muscle you want to exercise". But it seems there must be two distinct but relaated muscles. Am I right?

Again, thanks for the input and any other input I will eagerly read.

Gene

Hi ~ Gene,   The most important thing you must remember is that we all heal at different rates.   And urinary continence is the same thing.   You’ve had your surgery so don’t look back and wonder about it...   The ultimate goal has to be becoming ~ cancer free….   You are on the healing/recovery stone and it will take time.   Not something we want to hear but it really is true…   Gene ~ What type of exercises are you doing?   Walking, stairs, and yes kegels?   Did you find the other postings about incontinence here on the forum???   In “Our Journey” we made others aware that the “book” has the information that is needed to understand what we are dealing with…   I’ve taken a little excerpt from what we posted:   Excerpt from “Our Journey ~ Sharing is Caring” by Buddy & Lee   Dr. Walsh’s Guide to Surviving Prostate Cancer… (Give Yourself a Second Opinion), is truly a book of knowledge… teaching you about this disease… that affects the whole family!   It is not a book to make you scared ~ but to make you think, to make you understand, and to make you knowledgeable about this terrible cancer….. It doesn’t hold back….   But remember…being scared is part of this whole picture at the beginning anyway… so take in the information that is offered from its contents.     We are not promoting this treatment.... that is definitely a personal choice.  This book has information that "all of us" can use no matter what treatment you decide on.    Read only areas that you are comfortable reading at first.   Gradually you will likely read it all…   I did not read Chapter 12 until after our surgery and after we had a few weeks under our belt.   Then I skimmed through the pages… and it made me really appreciate what we have just gone through….. and give thanks each day for having found this cancer early.     We still feel very comfortable promoting this book…   Now ~ We can truthfully say we did not key into the “percentages”…..Why?? Because we knew we had to get the cancer out!!!   First and foremost…. Then we would deal with the urinary incontinence.   I understand that the book scares some and we even had one member put it away in a drawer for a few days…. But over time she pulled it back out and continued to learn about this disease and the healing/recovery issues.     Please know that you are not alone on this particular wobbly stone of incontinence…. But ~ giving yourself the time and learning as much as you can about what you need to be doing to help “you”…. Is so very important.   8 weeks really isn’t a long time when you think about what the body has gone through.   We are so thankful you continue to reach out….. because knowing you are not alone definitely helps and will help take some of the fear that continues to push the positives away.   Don’t let it.   Take one~day~at~a~time and work through it with all of our Helping Hands.   I’m at the library today and had planed to touch base with you about the white blood cell count & tests.   Did you follow up on this??   Please let us know how this is going.   Having this and the incontinence is definitely adding to the “stress”.   We purchased Dr. Scardino’s book about 3 weeks ago.   It has information that Dr. Walsh’s book does not have and Dr. Walsh’s book has information that Dr. Scardino’s does not have.   I know in a previous posting you mentioned your doctor did the testing to see if you would be able to take the collagen.   We also keep reading that this should be a last resort!...   There’s also a “sling” that a friends brother has and says it works well.   And a lady I just met at the library…. Her husband has the clamp and says it’s very uncomfortable.   Now each of these men waited over 16 months before doing anything…. So ~ with 8 weeks under you… I would definitely wait for your body to do as much healing as possible.   Dr. Walsh says it can continue to heal up to 2 years for a few men.    Don’t let the fear pull you under.   You’ve come to far and hopefully in the next week to two weeks you will see that you really are better than 2 weeks before.   Our thoughts and prayers surround you “extra” during this very trying time for you.   Easy for us to say…. But try to keep the positives in front of you!...   And again ~ continue to keep us on the front line with you.   In Friendship ~ Lee & Buddy   (Direct Link ~ just click on the title below and a new window will open!   Reminder … click on the REFRESH icon once you get there) Threads by: Gene6163  open Surgery Three Weeks Ago... "Gushing" and Collagen Implant Method discovered (?) while attempting to regain Continence Six Weeks & Starting to Bleed... Now I am in Panic Mode about My Incontinence... Help.         ** Excerpts taken from a wonderful book called “ Dr. Patrick C. Walsh’s “Guide to Surviving Prostate Cancer” by: Patrick C. Walsh, M.D. and Janet Farrar Worthington.   Copyright 2001…..      Excerpt: Page 246 ** After the catheter is removed….      > Until your urinary control has returned to an acceptable level, don’t force fluids.     >Once the catheter is out, you’ve got to slow the pace considerably.   Avoid drinking excessive amounts of fluids, and stay away from caffeine in all forms---coffee, tea, even soft drinks.   Caffeine, especially, is a powerful pharmacological agent that increases the frequency and urgency with which you need to urinate.       ** Urinary continence: The return of urinary control:     ** Phase One is when a man can remain dry when lying down.   ** Phase Two,   you’re dry when you’re walking around.   ** If you can walk to the bathroom and not urinate until you get there, that’s a GREAT SIGN!!!…     ---it means that the sphincter is intact.   ** Phase Three , you are dry when you stand up (using muscles that put pressure on the sphincter)    after sitting.   ** Remember, the recovery of urinary control is a slow process.   The most important thing you can do during this time is not to get discouraged.       Excerpt: Page 244 ** It’s hard to believe, but urinary control does continue to improve over two years and, in an occasional patient, even longer than that.   ** Can you do anything to speed things along, and improve your urinary control?   First, whatever you do, do not wear an incontinence device with an attached bag, a condom catheter, or clamp!   If you use any artificial device, you will hurt yourself in the long run.   You won’t be able to recover your urinary control, because you won’t develop the muscle control you need.  

Gene, Your not alone. Check out my "KW's Journey" story for all the details. But, I'm 5 months post op and still have gushing at times. I am dry when sitting or sleeping. But when I start moving around I start leaking. I can hold my bladder when it is full after sitting for some time. But once I go, the leaking starts agian.
I have tried Detrol LA and there was no change. A little over a week ago I had the collagen injections. But I have started leaking agian when on my feet. I call the Dr. today and left a voice mail for the nurse to talk to him. Have not heard back yet.
I just try to remember that the incontenance can not Kill me.
Don't beat yourself up over being slower than many of the guys here. I think we hear more about the "dry" stories than the "wet" ones because some people don't want to admit they are having trouble with it.

Hand in there and try to keep your spirits up. I KNOW how your feeling!

KW

Gene,

Improving the  "recruiting pattern" for the Kegel muscles - that is what my "bio-feedback pelvic floor muscle therapist" has me working on.  The pelvic floor muscles include the muscles around the anus (as you noted), those that can consciously stop the urine flow (see Lifeguyd's description), and the (VERY) lower abdominal area of the pubis that is just above the penis.
My therapist says that while stopping urine flow in mid stream can isolate the muscles (see Lifeguyd's idea about feeling below the scrotum), my therapist says that you should NOT use "stopping urine flow in mid-stream" as an exercise as you are confusing signals to the smooth muscles controlling the bladder and its valve that you have no real conscious control over.

I am one of the patients that uses the "walking around nude with a cup" method.
However, now I just use old t-shirts as the leaks are now small and the cup is awkward and spills.
The benefits of "walking around nude " include immediate feedback of leaking, zero tolerance for leaking (LISTEN TO LEE & BUDDY BLUEBIRD!  NO CLAMPS.  NO BAGS.), and staying dry between 10 to 14 hour shifts at work with pads. 
My latest variation on this naked exercise: When I awaken in the morning (from sleeping nude over a bed incontinence pad) with a full bladder, before I relieve myself, I stand over the toilette and cough REALLY hard while trying to keep from leaking.....  I still have a lot of work to do for that kind of control!
My therapist calls flexing all the pelvic floor muscles for this kind of control "bracing."  (For example, while lifting 80 pounds or sometimes just sitting up from a reclining postion with a full bladder....)

AS FOR THE "ELEVATOR KEGELS":
The idea is to use the same pattern of sets of ten you currently use.
However, you flex at half strength for 3 to 5 seconds,
  then full strength for 3 to 5 seconds,
    then half strength again for 3 to 5 seconds,
        (this "elevator going down" part is the most difficult and most beneficial)
      then rest for ten seconds.
IF YOU CAN, DO SETS FOCUSING ON ALL THREE AREAS OF THE PELVIC FLOOR MUSCLES (ANUS, "URETHRA SEAM,' AND LOWER PUBIS) - AND THEN TRY SETS CONSTRICTING ALL THREE SIMULTANEOUSLY.
My 30 minute commute allows me real focus on these exercises.  I am getting stronger muscles and a little bit better "walking around & lifting" control each day.

The idea of doing these on the stairmaster (Thanks Mama Bluebird!) is sound.
I "Kegel" while uing a Total Gym in rowing machine mode -and just on the floor doing  "backstrap focus stomach crunches."
The main idea is that as you use variable strength in various movements and positions-
you refine and develop the "recruiting patterns" and coordination of the muscles you will need both unconsciously and consciously.  
(My personal goal here: Zen Shaolin Urology Kegelmeister....  )

Try to remember:
Who(se) you are,
Where you are going, and that
God's Presence is very familiar with (toilette training!) His children.  :)

Cedar Chopper
In week eight - using 4 to 8 pads per day
- depending on time spent working/lifting (10 to 14 hours)