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Posted 3/12/2008 10:40 PM (GMT 0)
This has proven to cure UC. This totally surprised me... I wonder why it hasn't received more attention?



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fecal_bacteriotherapy
Posted 3/12/2008 11:15 PM (GMT 0)
If you do a search, you'll find it's been discussed on this board several times.

And it hasn't been "proven" to cure anything. Some preliminary studies have shown that it may help in some cases. You may want to go back and read the article to which you posted a link, which confirms this.
Posted 3/13/2008 12:01 AM (GMT 0)
A recent article by Borody et al which details 6 cases of severe chronic ulcerative colitis treated using Fecal bacteriotherapy suggests that the procedure may be extremely successful in these cases as well. Complete reversal of symptoms was achieved in all patients by 4 months post-HPI, by which time all other UC medications had been ceased. At 1 to 13 years post-HPI and without any UC medication, there was no clinical, colonoscopic, or histologic evidence of UC in any patient[


sounds like a cure to me. maybe you should go back and re read the article
Posted 3/13/2008 1:13 AM (GMT 0)
Really, it hasn't been that successful. If it was a cure, we'd all be doing it....trust me on that one! Hopefully you can locate some of the threads about it and read from those that have actually tried. it. Good luck.
Posted 3/13/2008 1:41 AM (GMT 0)
haha. ok . not trying to argue. just another fellow desperate UC patient searching for an answer :).
Posted 3/13/2008 2:18 AM (GMT 0)
Yes, I hope it will be a cure. But six patients doesn't prove anything - you have to try treatments with hundreds or thousands of people to really know if they work.
Posted 3/13/2008 3:39 PM (GMT 0)
Jsanders505

Interesting info, thanks for sharing and I am sure if other members are interested they will check into this with their GI physicians.
Respectfully
Kitt

Posted 3/13/2008 3:42 PM (GMT 0)
I am wondering why the medical profession is not persuing this if it did indeed cure these 6
Posted 3/13/2008 6:19 PM (GMT 0)
Perhaps because of what's involved with the procedure. "Fecal Transplant" really doesn't sound that inviting :-)
Posted 3/13/2008 6:43 PM (GMT 0)
It definitely is high on the ewwww factor! I would think it difficult to interview people to use their feces for the process...

I don't believe it's the cure as claimed , but a few on here have tried it. Hopefully they will return to sing the praises.

q
Posted 3/13/2008 11:47 PM (GMT 0)
its gross i guess. but im sure we can all think of a million different things we have been through that are grosser. if it worked i would def do it in a heart beat. ill do anything at this point to save my colon
Posted 3/14/2008 12:41 AM (GMT 0)
These clips from CBC might help explain why this isn't used more... They're talking about C.Diff infections, but it can relate to UC as well.

http://cdiffsupport.com/videos/cbc1.mov
http://cdiffsupport.com/videos/cbc2.mov

I do think the "yuck factor" is a huge part of it, but more importantly, you really can't do a double blind study on this procedure. Now, if they could get it into a pill...

Btw, these clips are from November 2007...
Posted 3/14/2008 2:19 AM (GMT 0)
I just read an article the other day about a med in testing that linked bactiotherapy with a remicade-like immunosuppresant...in pill form.

I really think there is something to this bacteria theory--when I did SCD for a year, I always felt like the most beneficial part was the yogurt. And for awhile the VSL and cultural type products seemed to help. i'm optimistic that a new blend of treatments will begin to appear that incorporates more bacteria related treatments.
Posted 3/14/2008 3:18 AM (GMT 0)
Here's a good discussion from last year on this topic: https://www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=38&m=891388

And here's a copy of the Borody et al study mentioned earlier: http://www.cdd.com.au/pdf/paper17.pdf

Posted 3/14/2008 3:25 AM (GMT 0)

JerryGarcia said...
Perhaps because of what's involved with the procedure. "Fecal Transplant" really doesn't sound that inviting :-)

You're right, it doesn't, but I'd rather do that than take a crapload of unnatural pills for the rest of my life and still suffer with flare-ups. If it's a one-time deal and then you're cured, and you get to pick your donor, I really don't think it would be that bad.
Posted 3/14/2008 3:11 PM (GMT 0)
Well, IMO, you won't find answers here. I don't think anyone here has tried it, and most aren't even interested... The yuck factor may have something to do with that. I don't know why this doesn't get more exposure, but i suspect it has something to do with the way most GIs react when you mention this procedure - a mix of disgust and skepticism, they don't even want to entertain the idea that something like this might actually work. But I say - don't let a potentially beneficial treatment pass you by just because YOUR GI doesn't seem interested. Find a GI that is, or contact the clinic in Australia directly. Everything is worth trying at least once, and this treatment is VERY promising.
Posted 3/14/2008 4:16 PM (GMT 0)
DG...calculate how many people on the forum who won't even try rectal meds..I'm more shocked by that than who won't try fecal ememas. Opinions are OK with this one I think...

Are you considering it?

I not had to be on pred to know I won't do it...

I do hope the others who have done the treatment come by again to give a report as to their situation/progress/cure.

quincy
Posted 3/14/2008 6:09 PM (GMT 0)

quincy said...

I not had to be on pred to know I won't do it...
quincy

I wasn't able to decipher this ;) Anyway, I am considering it, but if I do it I'll do it in Australia, it's way to messy to do on my own, besides, you need a really reliable donor which is harder to find than it seems. I have exchanged e-mails with a few ppl who have done it and they all had only good things to say about it. Some were "cured" (if there is such a thing with this DD), others were not as successful, but every single one of them reported feeling a huge difference immediately post procedure. On the other hand it's understandable why so few have tried this, it's not something as simple as taking a pill every 12 hours...
Posted 3/14/2008 10:29 PM (GMT 0)
I mean I don't need to try something to know I don't want to do it.

Can't imagine it on your own...eeeewww...

A pill and already formulated medication seems the way I'd go for now..

Now if they could just take away the parts that are good from someone else's colon and not the feces...maybe that could work...
and have a lower gross factor.

you'll have to encourage others to post on here to give their accolades on the procedure.

Keep us posted.
quincy
Posted 3/15/2008 3:07 AM (GMT 0)
I hope so, because I'm never going back on Prednisone. I'd rather die actually.
Posted 3/16/2008 2:49 AM (GMT 0)
I don't think there's much grosser than shooting blood, pus, diarrhea and colonic tissue out of your butt spontaneously for a lifetime, so for all the people who are like, 'gross, I'd never try that' I think you'd change your tune if it was shown to work. I agree with Quincy that it's pretty crazy the negative reaction many people have to even using the therapeutic enemas given the CRAP we deal with as UC'ers.

That being said, I think there's more to this story than the visceral part of a poop enema. What they don't really talk about is that there's a SEVERE antibiotic protocol you must follow prior to the injection of fecal matter. Crohn's responds to antibiotic therapy, and UC, with several limitations, does too (check out Xifaxin-- it is a TRAVESTY that it isn't prescribed for UC as the efficacy and convenience is astonishing).

The poop may have little to do with it-- it could be the antibiotics, or it could be some other aspect of the poop-- the fat content, for example may coat the walls of the intestine, and in combination with the antibiotic therapy, allow it to heal once and for all (there was a poster named Researcher that originated this idea).

Yes, gross. Yes, something to it. Bravo for digging deeper. Here's one thing we do know-- the cure is NOT in the handful of marginally effective therapies that have made it through the incredibly rigorous FDA process to this point, which help but will never cure-- but I believe it IS out there, and I likewise think one of us can quite literally stumble upon it.
Posted 3/16/2008 3:08 AM (GMT 0)
I have to disagree with you, the efficacy of FB has nothing to do with the pre-infusion course of antibiotics. It's certainly not a "severe" course of antibiotics, nor is it something that would help (or has helped) on it's own, unless you consider a 10 day course of Flagyl, an antibiotic I believe many here have tried, "severe". The "poop" has everything to do with it, at least that's the theory - it's probiotics taken to the extreme. The antibiotics are used to weaken the "bad" bacteria pre-infusion. The fecal infusion is used to introduce a healthy bacterial flora, hoping that the "good" bacteria will compete with the "bad". The post-infusion diet is high fibre to stimulate the growth of "good" bacteria. Why is it so hard to believe that "poop" may actually be therapeutical its own?
Posted 3/16/2008 8:53 AM (GMT 0)
I guess it's difficult to believe it's theraputic because it's basically garbage. But, garbage can be composted and some beasties thrive in it...so, it sustains life.

Mind you, some dogs eat it for whatever reasons.

It's possible that it even feels a bit morally wrong to me somehow. But that's purely subjective on a deep level.  I do know it's a choice I wouldn't make.

quincy
Posted 3/16/2008 4:02 PM (GMT 0)
You're right, it is "basically garbage", but that "garbage" is full of bacteria without which the body could not function. It's a kind of symbiosis, created through millions of years of evolution. But in the last 60 years since the discovery of penicillin we have bombarded our bodies with so much antibiotics, not only when we are sick and actually need them, but also every day through antibiotic-treated meat, milk, etc. that (paradoxically) we have more bacterial infections and related problems today than ever before, and antibiotic resistant strains of bacteria are on the rise.

This therapy is not about "poop", the "poop" is only a means to an end, what this therapy is actually about is probiotics, and their extremely beneficial and important role in the health of the digestive system and the body as a whole. You have to use poop because, obviously, that's the only place you can find these bacteria. It's also extremely important that they're alive when you "transplant" them, that's why most off the shelf probiotic products can't begin to compete with FB since most of the bacteria in these products are already dead.

Dismissing fecal bacteriotherapy altogether just because you find it "distasteful" is as silly as dismissing for example cyclosporine therapy because cyclosporine is made out of a certain type of mold...
Posted 3/16/2008 8:42 PM (GMT 0)
Hi DG....I'm OK with being perceived as being silly in the fact that I find it distasteful...it is what it is. I'm confident in my treatment, hardcore 5ASA.. which I can definitely sing a gazllion accolades about, but not all UCers or docs have the same opinion.

I eat mushrooms. I take vitamins that are "mould" and I take antibiotics when I need them. Not all is equal nor needs to be justified to not like it.

Save your air miles points and when you have it done, please keep us informed. There will always be someone who will want to know the "ins and outs" of the procedure.

quincy
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