HealingWell
Search Close Search
☰

vegatarian responce

Support Forums
>
Ulcerative Colitis
✚ New Topic ✚ Reply
❬ ❬ Previous Thread |Next Thread ❭ ❭
Posted 1/4/2009 8:20 PM (GMT 0)

So, what causes IBD? In a nutshell, stress on four fronts: 1. lifestyle stress, the foremost factor of which is dietary: eating foods incompatible with our biology, causing toxicity and indigestion; 2. mental/emotional stress (which includes the impact of incorrect, disempowering beliefs about health and disease); 3. societal stress (such as working too-long hours); and environmental stress (pollution). Genetics and germs do not cause IBD; rather, IBD is caused by lifestyle choices and lack of proper education about the factors in disease and health. In other words, we need to learn how to restore health by healthful living and eating. And we can!

For almost 200 years, Natural Hygiene teachers have taught that unhealthful habits (which include ingesting and injecting poisons into the body) cause illness, and that the body is a self-healing organism which expresses distressing symptoms when its vital domain is threatened. In cases of IBD, the biggest culprit is acid-forming diets, including indigestible, cooked, fatty foods—primarily animal meats, dairy products and fried oils. Cooked meat provides little if any usable protein or fiber and it putrefies in the gut. Meanwhile, cooked oils are carcinogenic, plain and simple. Both irritate and ravage the bowel, causing inflammation, diarrhea and other distressful symptoms. Irritants (toxic matter and gases) cause bowel inflammation when toxins have built up to a life-threatening level. The body does its best to expel the irritating substances, but in cases of IBD, it is overwhelmed by the magnitude of the task.

Posted 1/4/2009 8:23 PM (GMT 0)
So become a Vegetarian and don't eat anything cooked with oil? ie live in a jungle?
Posted 1/4/2009 8:45 PM (GMT 0)
Stress does not cause IBD and frankly your ideas are a bit insulting to those of us who suffer daily. I am happy that you are able to get your IBD under control through whatever method.

Perhaps you are thinking about IBS, not IBD, which is exascerbated by stress. Not really sure what your agenda is but please try to be a bit more thoughtful about the way you are presenting your views. Many people on this forum have tried every type of diet, medication, exercise.... and have had no relief.

Again, does your "theory" explain CD also???
Posted 1/4/2009 8:46 PM (GMT 0)
The OP probably doesn't even have UC and is here to spout all sorts dribble.

Maybe in 200 years, we will be sterile.

q
Posted 1/4/2009 8:49 PM (GMT 0)
quincy-
Yeah, I was thinking the same thing :)))
Posted 1/4/2009 9:19 PM (GMT 0)
Three posts and I'm tired of this guy already. Really, what he says are just assertions. Point me to some specific studies that indicate any or all of these as valid. To me this sounds like some new age babble to sell some way out therapy.
Posted 1/4/2009 9:58 PM (GMT 0)
And for the desperate, he just might. I would think that info is on the internet anyway if one digs deep enough.

q
Posted 1/4/2009 11:39 PM (GMT 0)
Ithought maybe there were some people here with open minds and are open to new ideas


Retired U.S. Marine

As a retired Marine, you must understand the concept of following group rules. In this case, disrespect and flaming are not tolerated on this forum, which is supposed to be to share information and support one another. Consider this your only warning about flaming. Thank you.

3. No posts that attack, insult, "flame", defame, or abuse members or non-members.   Respect other members of the community and don’t belittle, make fun off, or insult another member or non-member.  Decisions about health and well-being are highly personal, individual choices.  "Flaming" and insults, however, will not be tolerated. Agree to disagree. This applies to both the forums and chat.

Post Edited By Moderator (Judilyn) : 1/4/2009 5:30:07 PM (GMT-7)

Posted 1/4/2009 11:54 PM (GMT 0)
I do have an open mind, but not so open my brains fall out. I do defer to those who have more formal training that I do, and can perform research that will find what works for UC sufferers as a whole rather than the anecdotal evidence of what worked for one individual. Call me crazy....


I will try to offer any advice I find helpful, I sympathize with all UC sufferers, but I won't proclaim I have the solution that fits all unless it's been validated by several clinical trials that have been properly scrutinized.

Post Edited By Moderator (Red_34) : 1/5/2009 6:21:13 AM (GMT-7)

Posted 1/4/2009 11:56 PM (GMT 0)
There really is no reason to even discuss this or answer this person.

WE KNOW that IBS and IBD are NOT the same.  I had IBS for like 30 years but not IBD.  You can certainly have one without the other.

I hope people will keep posting the medications they are taking, have tried, etc.  It is helping me to "cope".  I am 68 - only diagnosed a year ago - probably have eaten a TON or two or red meat, etc. 

The more reserach I do - credible websites, etc. - does not seem like WHAT we eat has much to do with causing UC.  Since I have IBS I have to be careful what I eat for my stomach not my colon.

Just had to get my very new two cents in!

I am happy for anyone who no longer has the UC or proctitis symptoms (or IBS for that matter) but we just have to watch out for those "quacky" ideas.  They are everywhere.

Thanks pant pooper for the "entertainment". By the way, I do believe we have all "cried".

ElaineNY

Posted 1/5/2009 12:11 AM (GMT 0)
kops2da-
Thanks for responding to this person's remark about IBS/IBD- obviously doesn't know what he is taking about.

I certainly will not respond anymore to his obvious attempt to rile us up...
Posted 1/5/2009 12:19 AM (GMT 0)
So, pooper, do you have IBD, or are you building up to selling something or espousing a cause? If the latter, let me remind you of a couple of the forum rules before you get there.

4. No advertising or links to advertising or "Spam" is permited (including signatures).
Advertising or Spam is defined as posting a link for the purpose of selling, soliciting or promoting by someone that has ownership or other "vested interest" to the web site involved, including efforts to promote other online forums or web sites by web site owners. 
If you are a web site owner and have a link that fits into this category that you want to share, please submit it to our resource directory and we will review your submission. 
Posts and links about fundraising (including nonprofit fundraisers) are NOT permitted. 
Only links to personal home pages are allowed in signatures and member profiles. Links must be appropriate and abide by rules #1-4 or they will be removed. 
Links to helpful web sites (commercial or otherwise) are allowed when they are posted by someone without any "vested interest" AND whose purpose is NOT to solicit, advertise, promote, fundraise, etc.

6. No links to any web site or use of any username that fits into rules # 1-4 above.

10. No posts of an overtly political or religious nature OR posts promoting advocacy of particular personal, medical, legal, religious, political, or non-profit causes.  The forums are intended for offering mutual personal support.  Debating controversial subjects should be taken elsewhere.  Limited religious references are allowed (ie. "my prayers are with you" or a brief quote as part of a larger post), but the forums should not be used to convert others

You did agree to abide by the forum rules when you joined, so we're confident you will do so.

If you truly have IBD, you might consider using a more thoughtful tone. There are dozens of unproven theories about IBD and other autoimmune diseases; yours are only a few of them. Stating them as known fact is both misleading to new people and disrespectful toward those who have struggled with this condition for years or decades.

We value all of our members and I hope you will continue posting, but in a way that will allow you to gain maximum benefit from this forum.

Posted 1/5/2009 3:17 AM (GMT 0)
O.K I see how this works it’s ok if someone says I can’t spell

How it works is that you aren't allowed to flame anyone on this site. The moderators don't make the rules, the administrator of the forum does. The moderators volunteer their time to try to keep the site as supportive and positive as the vast majority of the members want it to be. I'm sorry you feel picked on, if you have a complaint, you're more than welcome to address it to the forum administrator.

Post Edited By Moderator (Judilyn) : 1/5/2009 12:00:31 AM (GMT-7)

Posted 1/5/2009 3:37 AM (GMT 0)
pp, you haven't said anything that rings true to me. Not much is plain and simple in gastrointestinal medical science.
What a burden it must be to have absolute beliefs so contrary.
Posted 1/5/2009 3:49 AM (GMT 0)

pant pooper said...
Why would you not post the part about Drs. Only work on symptoms and not cures?

Where would you get an idea like this? There are many types of doctors. Some work on treating patients with established protocols, sure. Some research oriented specialists work on both treatments and cures. Sure insulin isn't a cure for diabetes, doesn't mean they're not working on one. I'm pretty sure measles, mumps and rubella have been cured by having a simple vaccination during childhood. It seems you're the one with the closed mind. You may have already decided that the medical establishment is out to lunch.

Please, do a little more research. I suggest finding a "skeptic" podcast, like "The Skeptics Guide to the Universe". A great book about alternative medicines vs convention is "Trick or Treatment". It's pretty fair. In fact, one of the authors is a professor of complementary medicine. I think he wants to find out which alternative medicines are effective and which are outright fraud. Most alternative medicine practitioners are not willing to put their treatments under scientific scrutiny, and have lame excuses like we treat the patient as an individual, so effectiveness won't show up statistically.

I do believe you said remicade was working well for you, from another of your posts. Conventional medicine must be helping you somewhat. Please, lurk around these forums, share your experiences, ask tons of questions, try to find which treatments you'd like to try and discuss with your G.I. specialist. Empower yourself! Just don't be arrogant and think you have all the answers, the moment you join a message board.

Respectfully,
Roger
Posted 1/5/2009 4:05 AM (GMT 0)
now I'm not tryin to down anyone, specially not the one who posted this..... But COME ON.... we are carnivores... top of the food chain. If someone decides to go vegan,,,, thats fine. thats their choice. but for those of us that aren't... meat is a part of a properly balanced diet. Unless you are a vegan and take the other dietary precautions. But for most of the world meat is necessary. and tastes good. I for one, and its just my experience, Have UC, I keep a food diary, and meat doesn't affect my bowels. This is an individual disease and it may affect some. But not me. I guess its true... the old indian translation for vegan. "Vegan---- old indian word for BAD hunter." Sorry just tryin to lighten things up. We all have our opinions. And I'm sure you have all heard me state mine. But this one sounds BOGUS. Two posts have only talked about not eating meat. Is this PETA?
Posted 1/5/2009 4:17 AM (GMT 0)
UC is different from IBD. This is a UC message board. I'm a vegetarian with UC and I'm doing just fine, though, on another note.
Posted 1/5/2009 4:22 AM (GMT 0)

To pp...

Many who suffer from ibd/ibs on a daily basis are very open minded, we have to be to new therapies and trials! I would think you are not being very open minded because you are ruling out germs and genetics. As far as not being educated, there are many educated individuals on this site all contributing to help each other. Educated people know and understand the body is a very complex thing and those who are ruling out genetics and "germs" are lacking and being close minded. Also, just an FYI UC have been linked to a genetic mutation.

Holly

Posted 1/5/2009 4:28 AM (GMT 0)

pant pooper said...

So, what causes IBD? In a nutshell, stress on four fronts: 1. lifestyle stress, the foremost factor of which is dietary: eating foods incompatible with our biology, causing toxicity and indigestion; 2. mental/emotional stress (which includes the impact of incorrect, disempowering beliefs about health and disease); 3. societal stress (such as working too-long hours); and environmental stress (pollution). Genetics and germs do not cause IBD; rather, IBD is caused by lifestyle choices and lack of proper education about the factors in disease and health. In other words, we need to learn how to restore health by healthful living and eating. And we can!

For almost 200 years, Natural Hygiene teachers have taught that unhealthful habits (which include ingesting and injecting poisons into the body) cause illness, and that the body is a self-healing organism which expresses distressing symptoms when its vital domain is threatened. In cases of IBD, the biggest culprit is acid-forming diets, including indigestible, cooked, fatty foods—primarily animal meats, dairy products and fried oils. Cooked meat provides little if any usable protein or fiber and it putrefies in the gut. Meanwhile, cooked oils are carcinogenic, plain and simple. Both irritate and ravage the bowel, causing inflammation, diarrhea and other distressful symptoms. Irritants (toxic matter and gases) cause bowel inflammation when toxins have built up to a life-threatening level. The body does its best to expel the irritating substances, but in cases of IBD, it is overwhelmed by the magnitude of the task.

Sorry, but your information is incorrect, genes are linked to IBD (just read the post by Reef with the article about another new gene linked specifically to UC)...lifestyle does NOT cause UC, that's the worst mis-information I've ever heard...IBD has been around longer than you realise obviously and although stress and poor diet may be exacerbators of IBD it is not the single cause of it (as those would be the triggers involved with getting IBD but in order for that to happen one must FIRST be predisposed to getting it as in genetics)...you need to do more research on your part.

:)

Posted 1/5/2009 4:31 AM (GMT 0)

pant pooper said...
Ithought maybe there were some people here with open minds and are open to new ideas


Retired U.S. Marine

As a retired Marine, you must understand the concept of following group rules. In this case, disrespect and flaming are not tolerated on this forum, which is supposed to be to share information and support one another. Consider this your only warning about flaming. Thank you.

3. No posts that attack, insult, "flame", defame, or abuse members or non-members.   Respect other members of the community and don’t belittle, make fun off, or insult another member or non-member.  Decisions about health and well-being are highly personal, individual choices.  "Flaming" and insults, however, will not be tolerated. Agree to disagree. This applies to both the forums and chat.

Actually this statement of yours is funny because for someone to say that IBD is not caused by genetics when it's been proven that it is would make you the close-minded one....personally I do not see any "new ideas" from your post, just bad info against what science has already proven to be true.

:)

Posted 1/5/2009 4:33 AM (GMT 0)

stephaleph said...
UC is different from IBD. This is a UC message board. I'm a vegetarian with UC and I'm doing just fine, though, on another note.

I think you meant UC is different from IBS (irritable bowel syndrome)?

:)

Posted 1/5/2009 4:38 AM (GMT 0)
just to clarify my post... What works for some wont necessarily work for all. AM not downing vegans> if that helps your UC, then more power to you. And good luck with it. It doesn't work for me though. We all find what works us and share it here. Thats the good experience I have of this board. But closed mindedness doesn really fit here. Least thats my take on this site.
Posted 1/5/2009 6:44 AM (GMT 0)
we may disagree and even ruffle feathers or opinions, But, those who come here, to preach the all-knowing to we who are perceived not, won't get much respect. This thread has proven that.

As a marine, you should understand defensive.....and you don't even seem to know your own disease...uh, red flag? Certainly not a white one.

quincy
Posted 1/5/2009 7:03 AM (GMT 0)
Okay, I think we've all had our say now. I'm going to request that this thread end here. Arguing and sniping only raise the stress level and most of us agree that isn't good for our UC or our moods. Let's move on to other topics and civil discussions before we end up with this thread locked.

Thanks!
Posted 1/5/2009 3:38 PM (GMT 0)

Thanks Judy!  Even though I found this thread quite "entertaining" in some ways I agree we move on. 

I sure wish some great scientist would come up with ONE or even two treatments to CURE IBD - all of them.  My son is a research scientist and I ask him when he was in college to invent a chocolate cake without calories - he is 45 and hasn't done it yet!  LOL  He does research on small rodents - he is the MRI specialist who tests the rodents for tumors and cures for diabetes, cancer, etc.  It takes many years to find what works but it is being researched and studied. Most case is lack of funds slowly things down.

ElaineNY

✚ New Topic ✚ Reply