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Posted 8/14/2011 2:12 AM (GMT 0)
C_G_K,
The link you provided with Dr Barody's interview:
Many patients also have previous exposure to metronidazole (Flagyl). What is little known is that Metronidazole has activity against dormant forms of mycobacteria1,2. Many patients with Crohn's have been exposed previously to Flagyl, and there is a remote possibility that pre-treatment in the past with Metronidazole may make Mycobacterium avium subspecies paratuberculosis infections more difficult to eradicate. This is speculation, but needs to be kept in mind.

I consider myself lucky to have been pushed into remission thru antibiotics. But we may not be so lucky in the future.
Posted 8/14/2011 2:14 AM (GMT 0)
C_G_K,

Thanks for posting this. Very interesting.

And it is similar to the theory that badslinke put forth...

Posted 8/14/2011 1:44 PM (GMT 0)

C_G_K said...
I think this is a very interesting interview with Dr. Borody if you have a little time to read it. It's about treating Crohn's with antibiotics to eliminate MAP (mycobaterium avium paratuberculosis). MAP and Fusobacterium Avium are two prime suspects in U.C., and it gives you an overview of the issues involved in trying to eradicate pathogenic bacteria with antibiotics.

For example, he says to avoid clarithromycin for various reasons. That was the one that got me into trouble in the first place.

www.crohns.org/treatment/borody.htm

Sounds like camel milk is a natural antibiotic.

Did you mean Fusobacterium varium?
Posted 8/14/2011 2:38 PM (GMT 0)

DanthaMan said...

Did you mean Fusobacterium varium?

Oops, yes I did. Thanks for the correction!

BabeInWoods,

Yes, that is the scary thing, how these dangerous, pathogenic bacteria are rapidly becoming resistant to antibiotics, and how taking a particular antibiotic (by itself, not in combination with others) may make future combo treatments ineffective.

The one bad boy that keeps getting mentioned is Clarithromycin. I can tell you I will NEVER let a doctor or dentist prescribe that for my kids.

I think it is fascinating how Camel's milk may have natural antibiotic effects against bacteria related to IBD. Does anyone know if Camel's milk has been consumed by people in a way similar to Cows milk? In other words, does it have a record of being safe for human consumption?

There must be other natural products out there that are natural antibiotics against MAP and fusobacterium. I've heard that the milk from young Thai coconuts has natural antibiotic effects also, but I have not been able to confirm this claim. My brother swears that these things cured his IBS.

VIEW IMAGE

This is what they look like. They are delicious, although a little hard to open.
Posted 8/14/2011 2:59 PM (GMT 0)
I'm just asking this because I'm not sure myself. Is it legal at all? With Canada, we have harsh laws for travelers to bring food over the border, and I'd be cautious in doing so.

And claiming that it can cure crohn's is a tall order. Cure is a very subjective term in my books since UC. Now I'm not saying it doesn't help. I've read about camel milk years ago, and believed it would do better than milk can for humans.
Posted 8/14/2011 8:28 PM (GMT 0)

C_G_K said...
In other words, does it have a record of being safe for human consumption?


It is widely consumed in the Middle East and Africa, and has been so for a long, long time.

The legality seems really gray. There was a 2009 federal decision to basically allow the states to govern it by themselves, so it appears to depend on where you live.
Posted 8/14/2011 10:04 PM (GMT 0)
badslinke,

Yes that's right and I think they have a record of much lower auto-immune diseases too.

Let me know what you find out when you call Pa and your local place.

I'm going to put my order in tomorrow, which means I'll get my first shipment on 8/29.

Posted 8/15/2011 12:18 AM (GMT 0)

InSoFla said...
I'm going to put my order in tomorrow, which means I'll get my first shipment on 8/29.


Gaahhhh that's awesome! I might have to move to Florida :-)
Posted 8/15/2011 8:42 AM (GMT 0)

Sibby said...


And claiming that it can cure crohn's is a tall order. Cure is a very subjective term in my books since UC. Now I'm not saying it doesn't help. I've read about camel milk years ago, and believed it would do better than milk can for humans.

I feel the same way. They seem to be making some far-fetched claims. And yes I too am not saying that it can't help, only that they are making some grandiose claims. For example, they give the impression that camel milk can be used to cure a vast list of illnesses, including autism, diabetes, cancer, heart disease, Crohn's, and Parkinson's.

Also, the wording needs to be read carefully. For example, the following sentence does not say camel milk cured the following. It says that camel milk has been used to cure the following:

Camel milk has been used to cure the following illnesses...

The two have very different meanings.

However, I would be interested to know whether or not camel milk helps one's IBS/IBD symptoms. If anyone gets a chance to try it, then please tell us your experience. Plus, let us know how it tastes.
Posted 8/15/2011 11:01 AM (GMT 0)
I haven't had a drink of milk since the day the doctor told me in 1973 that I was going to have a baby and that even though milk makes me sick I need to drink lots of it. Well I tried a glass and after throwing it up within minutes, I promised myself I wouldn't ever again. But if this camel milk works, maybe they could make it into cheese for all of us who are dairy intoerant.

I wonder if they have camels around the Texas area? I'm going to look into it.
Posted 8/15/2011 11:41 AM (GMT 0)
zucchini, I believe I saw that woman with the camel milk business last week! She was driving a white suburban on 440 with a big sticker magnet for her business on her passenger door. I remember thinking "camel milk, what the heck?"

I've always suspected MAP could have a role to play in my UC/Crohn's like UC because for MANY years I drank a half gallon of milk a day. I gave MAP plenty of opportunity to introduce themselves into my system. I would definiteley try this.

Posted 8/15/2011 2:29 PM (GMT 0)
Buckle up just got off the phone and the milk is not cheap. They recommend drinking a pint a day which if you buy a months worth is $12.50 per pint otherwise its $15 per pint. They will ship out of state you just need to give them your info. They will send a membership form and all the info pertaining to camels milk and pricing. They ship the milk frozen and said you can just refreeze it when you get it. No idea how much shipping is going cost.
Posted 8/15/2011 2:33 PM (GMT 0)
Holy cow (camel)! That is some expensive stuff. It better be a 100% cure for UC/CD at that price.
Posted 8/15/2011 3:04 PM (GMT 0)

subdued said...
I feel the same way. They seem to be making some far-fetched claims. And yes I too am not saying that it can't help, only that they are making some grandiose claims. For example, they give the impression that camel milk can be used to cure a vast list of illnesses, including autism, diabetes, cancer, heart disease, Crohn's, and Parkinson's.

Also, the wording needs to be read carefully. For example, the following sentence does not say camel milk cured the following. It says that camel milk has been used to cure the following:

Camel milk has been used to cure the following illnesses...

The two have very different meanings.

I agree Subdued. It's always in the wording. Always watch out for past tense wording also.

Perhaps an outsider believes once you get rid of the symptoms then the person is cured, when he/she is really in remission.

And maybe Camel milk is better than cows or goats, because there isn't a huge niche a company can get involved and add antibiotics and such.


@ Insofia, is the product available from small farmers? Or are they industrialized at all, if you know.
Posted 8/15/2011 3:10 PM (GMT 0)
To all those interested in Camel Milk,

I spoke with Dr. Millie Hinkle of http://www.camelmilkusa.com/, she's been working for 30 years with Crohn's and UC patients in addition to autistic kids as well.  It seems not all sources are reliably made.

She told me it's important to maintain dairy, wheat, gluten free diet while on camel milk - the reason being: you have to heal your gut. Also told me that probiotics is key. Dosage will depend upon individual. And progress is individual as well, it could take 6 months to 2 years, and yet in some cases she's had bedridden patients with Crohns get well in as little as 5 days of drinking camel milk. There are very rare cases, where people get D from it, in which case it doesn't agree with you. 

And YES, it is illegal to get it.

 

Posted 8/15/2011 3:20 PM (GMT 0)
InSoFla,

Did the docter tell you how much she recommended you drink per day?

And-are you in south Florida? Is the midwest the closet for shipping to the east coast???

Edit: I just read an article that mentioned docter Hinkle and notices she's in North Caronlina, where I live, cool!

Post Edited (Levi) : 8/15/2011 9:30:41 AM (GMT-6)

Posted 8/15/2011 3:54 PM (GMT 0)
So it works best if you're on a gluten/dairy free diet?

There's always something.
Posted 8/15/2011 4:07 PM (GMT 0)
You would have to make sure a dairy/gluten free diet alone did not help you first to make sure it was actually the camel milk that was helping.
Posted 8/15/2011 5:52 PM (GMT 0)
Too many variables. Like everything else with this scourge of a disease.
Posted 8/15/2011 8:41 PM (GMT 0)
Levi,

Maybe you can call Dr. Hinkle and see what she says?

She was so nice, so knowledgeable on the phone.

Posted 8/15/2011 8:43 PM (GMT 0)
Mackster,

Yes, you have to be dairy/gluten/wheat free.

She told me that enables the colon to heal.

It makes sense, from all I've read, even prior to camel milk research.

I know that LDN is most effective with an SCD diet - which I am already following.


 

Posted 8/16/2011 3:33 AM (GMT 0)
I'd hate to throw a wrench in the discussion here, but...

I called Hinkle today as a follow up to InSoFla. She made it very clear to me that IT IS ILLEGAL TO SHIP CAMEL MILK ACROSS STATE LINES. Anyone who does so is knowingly and willingly committing a FEDERAL CRIME. She is well aware that some companies do this, and refuses to have anything to do with their operation.

Your best bet, to get it legally anyway, is to find a farmer in-state that will sell it to you directly. InSoFla, if you aren't getting that milk from someone within the state of Florida, I suggest either editing or deleting these posts because they are evidence of a crime.

On top of that, Hinkle told me she does not work with the camel ranch just north of me in CA, because they don't follow her "membership guidelines". She referred to them as "those people" and was not very nice to me when I mentioned them. In fact, she wasn't very nice at all, and seemed a bit pissed that her phone number had been posted on this forum. There's obviously some bad political blood flowing around here.

As a side note, the only farm nearest to CA that she "works with" is in Oklahoma, leaving me crap out of luck in her view as far as obtaining milk legally unless I want to drive up there and get it.

I called the CA ranch repeatedly today but have come to the conclusion that no one actually answers their phones, it just leads to a voice message that gives you useless details on their events.

I'm thinking about just driving up north and knocking on their door. We will see.

12-15 bucks a pint is freakin ridiculous, btw. It's probably so expensive to make the illegal operation worthwhile. Shady.
Posted 8/16/2011 11:50 AM (GMT 0)

badslinke said...
  In fact, she wasn't very nice at all, and seemed a bit pissed that her phone number had been posted on this forum. 

Well that sucks I was planning on calling her later this morning.

Posted 8/20/2011 6:26 PM (GMT 0)
I will try it for a while and I will till you my experience, but how many should I drink? and for how many days?

Post Edited (Sultan) : 8/20/2011 1:37:46 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 8/20/2011 7:33 PM (GMT 0)
Nobody knows. It's so hard to get no one has ever really tried, at least here on HW.
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