Ever wonder why most UC starts distally

Protein fermentation in the colon as a possible cause.

Old Mike

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/mnfr.201100542/pdf

Yep, vegetarians who get UC are hard to figure out,and we are all genetically different.
Did you happen to eat,junk food,cakes,white bread,chips. Lots of nuts,anything with lots of veggie oils.
I know before my son got UC he ate lots of philly steak sandwiches and lots of meat in general,then he had very smelly sulfur gas for about 6 months prior.
They of course do not know for sure that protein fermentation in the distal colon is the cause for UC,or why for sure
it usually starts in the rectum. Another factoid is that the mucus layer is thinnest distally. Could be a combination,I also seem to remember reading that mesenteric blood flow is lowest distally.
Old Mike

I would love to see if there is any connection with vegetarians on how much soy and corn and nuts and eggs and cheese,they eat. It seems that the total amount of veggie oils could add up to quite a bit. If they also ate processed foods,
that would add more veggie oils. I was just looking at veggie/soy burgers on the internet, some have corn oil and this
brand happened to have methylcellulose. CMC is not good to eat.
http://www.charite.de/arbmkl/publikationen/2009cmc.pdf

Old Mike

Reading the above paper again and more carefully. It actually indicates that meat protein is more digestable than veggie
protein, but this was in mice.
Also indicates that diets high in protein,whether meat,casein or soy, but not whey caused genetic damage.
ALso high protein diets thin the mucus barrier,animal protein acts the worst.
I would imagine that lots of soy protein might cause a problem.
Old Mike

I was also eating mostly vegetarian when I developed UC symptoms.  I ate mostly organic, 1-3 servings of whole grains every day, lots of fresh fruits and veggies, I thought overall I was eating a very healthy diet, exercising, doing all the things I was supposed to do.  I also have the genetic factor, though, my dad has UC, so I figure I got those genes and some bad luck. 

I wonder about the distal part, too.  You'd think if what you eat can trigger an inflammation reaction in the anus first.  There's so much we don't know about UC.  All that aside, I believe that what I eat has a big effect on it all.

Mike- I recall from my days on Seth's "healingcrow" forum, several people managed to gain UC remission via a ketonic, all-meat diet (I'd call it "Atkins on steroids" except that I hate to use the word steroids) - I personally do better on meat plus low carb veggies but definitely do worse on a vegetarian diet, which if necessity to get the orotein ends up beng rather high in carbs and gassy foods such as beans. As for ease of digestion, I find meat the easiest to digest of all.

Hi Trojen: Not quite sure what you are getting at.
It is not the mucosa that is thin distally but the mucus layer.
Since the doc's cant find a specific pathogen they now say it is a problem with the commensal bactera,tranlocating
into the mucosa that causes the inflammation. In order to do this bacteria have to breach the mucus barrier.
How and why they breach the mucus barrier,and why the immune cascade does not shut off is perhaps another story.
It might be possible that if protein fermentation is going on in your distal colon then, those bacteria that ferment
protein might contain high amouts of protease,which then dissolves the mucus layer.
Could this be considdered disrupted gut flora,possibly, or since there is too much protein in the distal colon that,
possibly should not be there the problem. I can see where if the protein fermenters growth takes off,since they are being fed to much,this would cause an abnormal population of bacteria where it should not be.
Alternative treatments such as probiotics, and FT seems like they can correct this,of course FT works much better
since the strains are human as opposed to most probiotics which do not colonize the gut,for long time periods.

My speculations.
Old Mike

Post Edited (Old Mike) : 5/4/2012 7:56:56 AM (GMT-6)

Yes: We are pretty much on the same page. As far as protein fermentation in the distal colon,just about any protein
will do that. My question now is why is it getting there. Is it just eating too much protein, or too much at one time,
where it cant all be properly digested in the upper digestive tract.
Yes the mucosa is the tissue lining of the gut, the mucus barrier I refer to is mucus,which is on top of the mucosa, and
faces the stool and bacteria.
Old Mike

Ok here is the thing, too much of the wrong fat,sets up the immune cascade.
To much protein no matter what type, if it somehow gets to the colon is not good.
It looks like it can cause an increase in protein fermentors,which then creates a dysbiosis.
These bacteria would have active protease,which then would dissolve your mucus,
Once the mucus is weakened/gone,bacterial translocation takes place and the immune cascade starts.
This has nothing to do whether animal products or whey protein agrees with you.
Most likely we do not even know it is going on until we get proctitis,and then if we are eating the wrong fats,the
immune cascade gets out of control. So UC induction might be at least a two step process, and much of it
is centered on the western diet, and I would guess large meals.
I really need to look into this more,may not be much info out there.
My speculations.

This study indicates that stomach acid suppression will cause protein to get into the gut, so drugs

like prevacid are not good,and for some reason you have low stomach acid that is not good.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1046/j.1365-2036.1998.00377.x/pdf

This one covers quite a bit. My take is to cut back on protein and dont eat a lot at one time.

http://www.open-access-biology.com/probiotics/hughes/hughes.html

This one basically says even normal people malabsorbe protein,too much is not good,too much at one meal not good, looks like eating carbs with the protein might help.

http://ajpgi.physiology.org/content/277/5/G935.full

Another:

http://gut.bmj.com/content/41/1/70.full.pdf

commercial site but analysis makes sense.

http://www.quantumwellness.com.au/intestinal_bacteria_imbalances.htm

Protein also comes from your mucus being fermented by the bacteria.

I am guessing that this is why FT might work. It replaces the excess protein fermenters with normal bacteria. 
Old Mike

Post Edited (Old Mike) : 5/4/2012 7:09:08 PM (GMT-6)

Danthaman: I know my son prior to UC was eating lots of meat and perhaps not much else.
These are sulfate reducing bacteria having lots of fun,making the really bad smell.
Chew a few pepto bismol tablets, if your tongue turn black, you have sulfate reducers in your mouth.
I you eat pepto every day your stool will turn black also, although everyones might do this.
Old Mike

Mike- what sort of meat was your son eating before his UC? Processed meat? Eskimos never got IBD before westernizing, and they eat a diet almost entirely of meat. In the year before my 10 year remission ended I had a job where I was short of time and ended up buying McDonalds processed breakfast meat a lot... I nkw avoid processed meat big time; flares me.

Post Edited (Probiotic) : 5/4/2012 3:32:16 PM (GMT-6)

Pro: He was eating a lot of Philly steak sandwiches,which is just sliced steak. I checked with him tonight, he said at that time he was pretty much on an all meat/beef diet, and that is when he got UC and his colon was destroyed quickly.
He had his first scope on 21st birthday,8 months later colon removed,all meds failed. Rescue meds failed.
We were at a Tex MEX place for dinner, I checked and they cook with canola, I did not eat much of anything,couple
chips with some salsa. I am really serious about not eating veggie oils.
But had two to top shelf margaritas,with salt. At my weight surprised not drunk,they only let you have four.
Now that I am home will eat some veggies,couple spoons of EVCO.
Old Mike

Probiotic,

It's good you can use coconut oil.
Unfortunately I cannot tolerate anything coconut. I found this it years ago when I had the LEAP testing.

Btw, I've read that you should have a daily tablespoon of coconut oil to prevent Alzheimer's, and if you already have the beginnings of it or dementia, you should be having 3 tablespoons per day - and it will reverse it!

I use grass-fed butter and lard to cook with, loaded with CLA.