OT- CT Elementary School Killing today

I dont think it should be impossible for law abiding citizens to own guns- just very difficult. No one under 21 should be able to get a handgun. I dont believe anyone but law enforcement should be allowed to conceal carry. Any felony convictions for violent crime, assault or battery, drugs or alcohol (including DUI) should dusqualify gun ownership. And malls, stores, restaurants, schools, companies, cities- basically any sub entity shpuld be allowed to ban guns - and anyone caught violating those should be dusqualifhed from legalky owning again. Constitutional "right to bear arms" should be scrapped as silly and outdated as technically it doesnt specify what arms- so any citizen can own a nyclear tipped ICBM, or a bomb, technically according to that absurd rule, which was really written to allow organized militia for national defense.

Anyway, i agree, we arent going to get millions of illegal guns off the streets in our lifetime. But by all means those shady private gun sales, with no real background checks, shpuld be eliminated.


Countries other than the US, including canada, allow, rightly, guns for hunting and marksmanship, but you cant go packing heat into a starbucks.

As to metal detectors- sure why dont we just have them in malls, hospitals etc- while we're at it, expand TSa checkpoints and have shoes removed etc.... Where would it end? But if it makes people feel safer re kids, i guess one could turn schools into fortresses like US embassies.... Pretty sad though.

Post Edited (Probiotic) : 12/15/2012 8:45:19 PM (GMT-7)

Meemers said...
I'm so sick of this being politicized! On both sides of the fence...from gun control to God in the classroom. If you want a horse to ride, address the obvious mental issue that is behind this. It is nearly impossible to commit someone over 18 yrs of age. It sounds as if they have evidence of what set this man off..I have a feeling we will have more clarification of the depth of his mental illness once this is revealed.

Meanwhile..same day in China, with heavy gun laws, a man stabbed 22 school children..crazy will find a way.

Worst school massacre happened in 1927...insanity is not a new issue in our world.

Can you link to that news report on China? I had no idea..

Lots of discussion today on options to get the gun situation under control. There was a gun "buy back" program offered in Hartford, CT that netted thousands of weapons.
I believe there might have a similar effort on Springfield, MA.
Both areas experience gang-related violence.

For every person who says "Nothing can be done", there is another who comes up with a good idea.
I don't think this can be compared to "stabbing" where there is a better chance of survival.

I agree with Probiotic about restrictions on gun ownership and carrying. What the h_ll was the mother doing with a "Bushwacker" ???
That appears to be the gun that killed most of the children.
And, why would she have it in a house with a disturbed son?

I also agree with Meemers that people with mental health issues are not being provided the treatment they need. There was much discussion of that topic.

Looks like both issues will be brought up in Congress. Hope they don't "drop the ball" as usual.
I hope there will be a lot of political pressure on them to do something. Our kids need to feel safe in school.

Automobiles kill more people than guns. Do we have to eliminate them? Steak knives are also dangerous. etc etc etc

enough said..

I live only minutes from this tragedy..I just cant process this.

God Bless

Post Edited (twiggs) : 12/16/2012 1:07:07 PM (GMT-7)

ItsAlwaysSomething said...

I don't think this can be compared to "stabbing" where there is a better chance of survival.

 

The comparison of the two tragedies,  be it guns or knives.  where some die, some survive is that it's mentally screwed people who are doing it.   

There is a mental relief when it's family or within a group doing it to each other.....I see it in my city often, and knives are the weapon of choice because it's so "handy" I guess.  Some survive, some don't.  Alcohol plays a big part in many, but power does as well.   But many of these are the immediate reaction of anger, jealousy, etc..  There are also groups who troll areas for something they want and just stab/grab/and run.  Those i fear more because it can happen anywhere.

The bottom line is that the person/persons has/have become a victim of his/her situation and seeks revenge either directly or others to teach them a lesson and feel more powerful..  Victims, be them of others or of themselves, can do horrific damage because they have nothing to lose. 

Mental instability is a progression, and I do agree that many slip through the cracks and don't get the help they need until it's way too late.  Of course, many cannot be salvaged either and should be put away forever.   

Heartbreaking.......The survivors of this horrific act will never again be the same.

My opinion.....This evil monster was out of his mind, plain and simple. His mother was also out of her mind to own that many guns knowing her son was "not right in the head". The mother knew her son had some serious mental issues. Why would you keep SIX guns in your house?

Here is where I think the gun laws need to be fixed and fixed fast. People that want guns need to be screened heavily, and by heavily I mean that they need to be investigated, right down to what kind of toilet paper they use. Check their medical records, check their criminal records, check everything and leave no stone unturned. Do I think owning guns should be made illegal, no way. I do think the person wanting the gun should be heavily investigated, as well as investigating deep into the person's family.

No one knows what goes on in the mind of a crazy person.

This is a complex issue that really needs to be broken down and looked at and this incident may finally lead to that. It is not such a simple issue that just passing gun control laws is assured to fix the problem. The last thing you want to do is just pass gun control laws which make you feel safer on paper but not in reality. I'm not saying there aren't gun control laws which could help. I'm just saying if we want to take a big leap in fixing this problem we need to make sure the fixes work in reality and not just give us a phony sense of security. We not only need to look at the gun laws but we need to look at potential personality problems and be able to do something about it. We kind of live in a society where we let people do these unspeakable things and then try to catch and prosectute them after the fact - assuming they haven't committed suicide. It apparently didn't happen in this particular case but I am so sick of hearing of some kind of tragedy and then hearing that the person has a long criminal history and been arrested 20 times. Why on Earth do we continue letting these kind of people freely walk the streets? It's ridiculous. The police departments are spending too much of their time rearresting the same people over and over again. As far as persons with mental problems and medicines we really need to evaluate them. Unfortunately there is strong evidence that if these people are left having the responsibility of taking their meds on their own, they don't do it and nobody in the real world can force them to. People make terroristic threats and get slapped on the wrist and let go so society just waits until they kill a bunch of people and then we throw the book at them. Not too long ago someone in Detroit was released from prison for murder. He told everyone that when he got out he was going to kill again but, despite this, he served his time and was let go without anyone following up, killing about 13 new people over several years before finally being caught again. This is all insanely crazy and we need to address the root causes of all this and find real solutions but just gun control only is not going to fix the problem.

News reports have come out stating that the CT gunman's mother took him to target practice HERSELF over time. So-- a Sarah Palin-type who thinks that gun ownership is fun. The U.S. needs, at the very least, to ban & confiscate assault weapons & ammunition magazines. The crazies love to shoot off multiple rounds at lightning speed. That is SO obvious. (Lest anyone forget the shooting/disabling of AZ Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords with a group of her constituents in January, 2011.) Additionally, Meemers is spot on RE inadequate treatment of mental illness in the U.S. The worst cases used to be remanded to secure public hospitals, but these were shut down in recent decades as out-patient drug regimens became the standard of care. Therefore, the schizos, seriously paranoid, and/or delusional are free to roam at large in society! This Newtown CT elementary school had LOCKED exterior doors; Mr. Lanza smashed thru them to get inside. A seriously disturbed individual in a state-of-rage has exceptional physical strength; that is why such a person should not be free to roam!!!!!!!!!!!!! / Old Hat (32 yrs with left-sided UC; presently in remission taking brandname Colazal)

There is no quick solution, but taking away the guns will reduce the killings "speed". It is probably easier to kill people if you have a gun as opposed to running after them with a knife.

Killcolitis is right, you can't lock up anybody with a mental disorder because they might be dangerous. That doesn't make sense.

This isn't the first time a tragedy happened and it will not be the last. It's just how it rolls.

It's very dangerous and unconstitutional to preemptively detain and incarcerate people for what they "might" do. It seems like the right to life and the right to liberty take a back seat to the second amendment for some odd reason. That's due to the power of the gun lobby no doubt.
All I can say is, sure, this can and sometimes does happen in other places but not nearly as frequently. 84 Americans are killed with a gun every day. They severely restricted gun ownership in Australia a while back after a string of these types of massacres and as a result there have been none since.

Right on, killcolitis. This is exceptionally rare in other countries, and the guy stabbing schoolkidsin china didnt manage to kill many- because all he had was a knife, not a glock with a twenty round clip. I have no issues with people owning guns- but more an six round magazines are patently absurd for non military/law enforcement to own. Extensive - and periodic- psychiatric screening should be a prerequisite to own a gun, and when not in use at a range or hunting, the gun should be in a gunsafe. Nuts going on rampages are a tiny oercentage of gun deaths. Legal Registered gun owners are many, many more times likely to commit suicide or have children killed by accidental gunplay than non gun owners. I wish the US had a robust responsible gun organization as opposed to the NRA, which is a sick, corrupt money-making organization with no sense of self policing for responsible gun ownership.

The Newton killer's mother's guns were not secured against access by her son- so she was not a responsible gun owner and had no business owning those guns- by being a gun nut, no matter what charities she served, she signed the schoolkids at her very school's death warrant.

Post Edited (Probiotic) : 12/16/2012 5:17:49 PM (GMT-7)

Itsalwayssomething, you asked:

Since we have so many international contributors, I have to ask:
Is this type of thing happening where you live?

In Australia, no. We had a major massacre in 1996 (not in a school, in a public square in Port Arthur, Tasmania) which killed 35 and wounded 21. The gunman had bought his weapons legally, which prompted the then-Prime Minister John Howard to seriously tighten gun control and institute a National Firearms Agreement. This included a ban on all semi-automatic rifles and all semi-automatic and pump-action shotguns, and a tightly restrictive system of licensing and ownership controls. Since then, reports of shootings are scant, and mostly relating to domestic disputes or drug wars. (Actually, drug wars is probably the exception, but organised crime and random attacks on innocent people are not in the same category).

I was so saddened to read the news yesterday as were all of you. I am not well versed enough in American politics to join the debate on gun control. But I am grateful that I never encountered anything like that, and feel safely that I never will.

There's an enter button? Now you tell me!

I know it's not quite the same but it is kind of amusing that gun control advocates are eager to take away people's rights to own guns just because they "might" do something but they draw the line at taking away people's rights to freedom when they are on obvious threat to society. People have the right to murder someone or a multitude of people but if they get caught then we are going to throw the book at them. That's not much consolation to the victims families. I'm talking about, for example, a guy with a proven history of violence and terroristic threats and yet we slap him on the wrist and don't do much of anything until he does murder someone or multiple people and then we do something about it. I am all for making automatic weapons illegal except for maybe rentals at a gun range but we have got to address problem people BEFORE they do something.

I was very much into gun control before terrorism. After 9-11 I rethank my position and realized what the founding fathers had intended. Even though there weren't any police per say at the time they also wanted everyone who wanted to have guns to have them so that if the British or anyone else (now terrorists) ever wanted to try taking over the country the citizens could spring into action themselves and defend our country if need be. Before 9-11 this would have been an unthinkable arguement of what terrorists could do and some could still argue today about what terrorists could actually accomplish but I worry without that second amendment the terrorists could infact inflict some kind of a takeover attempt. I think real terrorists have it in the back of their minds that with guns everywhere it makes their options more limited than if there were strict gun control laws. Unfortunately, we have to worry about this a lot more than the Australians.

By the way, does Norway have strict gun control laws? They had a horrendous mass murder just a couple of years ago.