VSL3 consumption not having effect on gut microbiota

link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s12602-010-9059-y#page-1

I think this study suggests that VSL3 made some improvements - but it clearly states that it did not have any effect on the overall gut microbe population.

So for those taking it trying to "change" their gut bacteria make-up it may be wasted $ and effort...

Anyway - maybe have a read and see what you think. I maybe interpreted it wrong.

I have always thought that VSL3 is not a very good probiotic because the majority of it will not make it through the stomach acid alive since it does not have the special delivery technology or enteric coating like Mutaflor. If you want to change the gut flora, you need to take Mutaflor, Prescipt Assist, Probiotic CD, Dr. Ohhira's probiotic or any other probitic with bio-tract tecnology or enteric coating.
To me VSL3 is basically a heavy-duty yogurt, which is helpful for digestion but will not permanently change the gut flora and repopulate the GI system with the new "good guys".

Yeah, interesting.
I wonder if the DS strength would make any difference in such a study?

I keep thinking back to the pedi GI whose young patient had gone through absolutely everything available with no response, then was put into remission after 2 weeks with VSL. So, ... it must work, at least for some of us, somehow!

This is an old study from 2011 that used a very small population sample of 24 people. There was no placebo group used for comparison. The studies that have used large sample sizes used VSL 3 DS. It had positive outcomes for 80% of the experimental group vs placebo after a four week period.

I was very skeptical until I used it. All of my GIs over many years said it made no difference in their patients. My colorectal sureon insisted on it. It has made a huge difference. I wish I had used it when I still had a colon.

You can read the complete article here:
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3255476/

It is a study of IBS not IBD sufferers but discusses the benefits of probiotic use in IBS which sound like good things for IBD. From the article:

"Probiotics, especially VSL#3 have therapeutic potential as they possess antibacterial and antiviral effects that could potentially prevent or ameliorate post-infectious IBS[22, 23]. They also have mucosal anti-inflammatory properties[24, 25] with an increase in mucus[26] production and reduction of the migration of neutrophils to the intestinal epithelium[27]. Reduction of mucosal inflammation can ameliorate the consequences of inflammation and reduce the neurochemical and impaired motor function found in many subjects with IBS. Furthermore, probiotics could alter stool and gas formation[28-30] or increase intestinal mucus secretion[31, 32], which could ameliorate symptoms such as constipation and diarrhea. Indeed, many probiotic studies suggest a favorable outcome in ameliorating symptoms of irritable bowel syndrome[10, 33, 34]. While results between studies are difficult to compare because of differences in study design, probiotic dose, and strain, there has been evidence of symptom improvement[14, 15, 35-38]. Several of these studies have involved either lactobacilli or bifidobacteria[39]. One of the probiotic products studied with success in this disorder is VSL#3[14, 15], a product that combines both bacterial groups. However, many of the studies are limited by lack of documentation of stool recovery of the probiotic agent and lack of knowledge of how the probiotic agent can modify the gut microbiota.

I am not sure that any scientist has claimed that yogurt or lactic acid bacteria probiotics like VLS alters gut microbe species or population.It is pretty well known that lactic acid bacteria do not reproduce in the gut and simply die out that is why you take them every day . The study did show improvement better than placebo for VLS #3 in their patients. The study tells me that VSL works on IBS and might help with IBD. The really hard evidence is that probiotics help with infection caused diarrhea and post infection antibiotic treated diarrhea.

I make yogurt out of VLS #3 which gives you many times the amount of bacteria taking the probiotic does. I wish he would study that and do a lot more gut microbe studies on healthy and IBD people. The article does mention that IBS(like IBD) probably involves screwed up microbes and neurotransmitters. There is not going to be one magic pill and probably no magic handful of different pills any time soon.

To further complicate everything it is possible that what causes UC is that somehow the immune system has been tricked into destroying one or more of the "good" bacteria in the colon and by introducing more of that particular strain it could make your situation worse because your immune system would then ramp up even more to destroy the suspected pathogen. This "good" bacteria could be a different strain in everyone. This could also explain why a particular probiotic works well in one person but causes another person to get worse. I'm afraid it is like trying to put a million piece puzzle together and we don't even have the edges done yet. I take both VSL and Prescript Assist as I have seen a benefit in both.

Oh, and BTW, isn't it nice that the FDA is "helping" people by taking away treatments that could cure them?

www.nbcnews.com/health/fecal-transplants-may-stall-fda-cracks-down-docs-6C10186667

I've felt a lot of the UC drugs I've tried were useless c r a p, but now the FDA is trying to declare poop itself a drug so that it can regulate it. I wonder if the a-holes who make the overpriced, high side-affect, questionable efficacy drugs are behind this somehow trying to protect their turf.

soystud said...
are you saying sledgehammer = good ?

Well yes in the sense that is sudden and powerful

OM, every new revelation seems to bring with it more questions than answers. Hopefully it turns out to be something simple like a bug or combination of bugs that is causing the immune system to go haywire. In thrashing around trying to kill off the bad guys, the immune system instead takes out only the mild-mannered healthy bugs and the tougher bad bugs just laugh it off and keep the cycle going.
As those of us who have suffered from this disease for a while know, it always seems to have a trick up it's sleeve to counteract anything that we try to get rid of it.
Different things have worked for me at different times, but then seem to become ineffective. I don't know how long the spinach and raw sauerkraut will continue to help, but overall I understand the points you are trying to make completely and agree that most of the things you mention are complicating factors that confound attempts to get things back in balance.
Considering I was completely healthy for the first 40 years of my life, there must be a way to get back to being the way I was, assuming the disease hasn't caused permanent irreversible damage to my body (lining of the colon, etc.)

Guys,
it might be hope for us after all. Since FDA took away Mutaflor, there is actually probiotic strain that has anti-inflammatory and immunomodulating effects, similar to Mutaflor (contains non-pathogenic Escherichia coli (E. coli) strains like Nissle 1917).
This is a rare strain of probiotic-Bacillus Coagulans GBI-30 (BC30). The very good news is it is very affordable, comparing to the ridiculously priced VSL3, Mutaflor.....And it works very well for C-Diff.DuraFlora made by Source Naturals is $13-$15 for 120 capsules and it only contains Bacillus Coagulans.

Here is the actual research:
http://www.gutpathogens.com/content/3/1/16