Defective mucus sugar. Chicken or the Egg problem perhaps solved

FISH-FAQ read section 2

They seem to use two wordings ,intramucosal and intracellular.

Old Mike

https://ahdc.vet.cornell.edu/sects/Refer/fish_faqs.cfm

Great thread OM and Mark.

about 2 months ago I changed my diet and started rowasa nightly, and the obvious signs of inflammation (mucus, blood in stool) got better. Since then I have been waging an all out rescue effort for my epithelial cells - you know what they say: the word "heal" appears in epithelial for a reason (true, I am the only person that says that).

Just wanted to write down a protocol that has been helping me a lot: I am having one decently formed movement per day, no cramps, no mucus, or B, and I am finally gaining back good muscle weight.

****

DIET:
- Reduce/remove foods that weaken epithelial cells: Gluten, sugar, alcohol
- Reduce/remove foods that damage mucus physically: Nuts, uncooked veggies
- Reduce known allergens: Eggs, soy, sulfate preservatives (dried fruit), lactose

- Eat plenty of fish, chicken, occasional red meat, home made bone broths, rice (notice I am NOT grain free), melons, avocado.

SUPPLEMENT FROM BOTH ENDS:
- Supplement with approx. 10g of L-glutamine per day by mouth
- Supplement with approx. 5g of Bovine colostrum per day by mouth
- These 2 have helped a lot!

- Rowasa enema 3-4 times weekly (for now) laced with: Vitamin E (2k IU), Phosphatidylcholine (800mg), approx. 2.5g L-glutamine (recently added this, working well so far)
- This is the single most beneficial thing I have done

THE KICKER:
- Once a week FMT with my wife as the donor - Good reset switch for any dysbiosis that might be impeding the healing process.
- No this isn't a miracle cure but there is a noticeable difference in stool formation a day or two after an FMT. These things do help.

****


Thanks to this thread, I will be adding L-Threonine to my supplements...from both ends.

I'll let you know how it goes, but so far so good.

Have you guys, or anyone else started this sort of plan? I know Briggs mentions it in his thread and it has helped him a lot.

Post Edited (dAetomeN) : 7/8/2014 8:42:12 AM (GMT-6)

@OldMike, got response from Dr. Swidsinski. We have to discuss your questions f2f. I assume this will take place within the next 6-12 weeks. Keep you posted.

Thanks Mike. I'll probably go slow with the L-Threonine.

I did notice that 5g of glutamine was way too much in an enema (messed up the consistency of the stool), 2.5 seems to be ok. If I add Threonine, I'll probably reduce the dosage of Glutamine in favor or Threonine.

Will probably need some intuition here since there's really no research out there about enemas with Thronine.

Believe the first paper is buried in the thread somewhere,believe read it before.
Good to re-find it.
All good info.
Some normals have intracellular bacteria,and as far as I can figure they should not be there.
So what does that mean.
Perhaps immune system is tolerating them,or they are evading.
OM

That's a good paper OM - but I wonder if there is any incentive for research to address the issue?

I passed on the paper regarding the amino acid supplementation to a friend of mine who is currently doing a fellowship in gastroenterology (internal medicine), and his response was "it's worth a try".

I'm concerned that CURRENT STUDENTS of the science are not hearing about this research from many years ago. Instead we have a multi-year pipeline of biologics that reduce in efficacy over time and do not address the cause.

Where are the control group studies for these potentially low risk therapies to protect the epithelial tissue??

They are perhaps not real interested in mucus,dont know.

Here is another thread.

I did this in the past,made lots of mucus,but did not cure me.

However I am now back to doing it,1 gram of threonine and about 12 grams whey,I may ramp up the whey,not sure yet.

But now also off of most detergents that might touch my skin,and ingest as little as possible,in the

way of food emulsifiers. All hand wash in the house is now castile soap,shower,shave and shampoo with ivory bar soap.  Also stopped alcohol for the most part. So what I am doing now is a lot more than before.

Perhaps I am too far gone,34 years now.

Also if the mucus is repaired,you might also have to kill the bugs,and or stop inflammation.

Use the search function for "mucus old mike" to probably find more info.

PS: My stools normally don't have much smell if any,now starting to smell like a normal person somewhat.

Old Mike

https://www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=38&m=2371345

Post Edited (Old Mike) : 7/9/2014 11:17:06 AM (GMT-6)

Far as I can tell am still distal,possibly just rectal,dont know, no meds.
Diet been there done that a zillion ways,no effect.
My son lost his colon in about a year,very aggressive UC,go figure,he had a lot of SRB's,
massive sulfur farts.
Old Mike

Since the local gi sent my son home to die after colon rescue therapy failed,I am not happy with the

medical community and gi doc's in general.

Since my sons colon was ripped out,I have lost faith in the gi medical community.
Since the old fart proctologist used to stick rigid sig scopes into me once a month for two years,
I don't go near gi docs.

That being said modern GI surgery worked.
OM

Post Edited (Old Mike) : 7/9/2014 12:32:01 PM (GMT-6)

We could have a mucus degrader in our guts,well we do it is just perhaps how many.

Akkermansia muciniphila

Good or bad,under represented in UC.

Old Mike

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24040367

I am not sure how to interpret this info below. Is the absence of muciniphila letting in other mucus degraders,to

the mucosa, these being able to degrade the inner mucus barrier.

Perhaps another case for protease/mucinase inhibitors. Cant get the whole papers to see what might

be going on. Or perhaps the absence is causing the mucus to not expand properly,or is its absence due

to there not being enough mucus,it seems to grow almost exclusively on mucin.

under represented in human uc

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22968374

more

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20648002

all about

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2258631/

really all about

http://edepot.wur.nl/2279

promotes immune tolerance

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21904534

western diet lower mucin2 production

different topic

http://gut.bmj.com/content/63/1/116.full.pdf

dss colitis bacteria penetrate first then immune response days later

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20805871

Post Edited (Old Mike) : 7/11/2014 8:39:43 AM (GMT-6)

Yay! Always something new to learn and find out even when things seem to hit a dead end...

Dynamics of the Microbiota in Response to Host Infection
www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0095534#pone.0095534-Wiles1

Google the title if the link doesn't work.

HERE IS WHAT WE LEARN - Not just about the change in gut bacteria:

"early colonization (≈1–6 days post-challenge), during which the pathogen establishes a small free-living reservoir in the cecum and ileum and initiates adherent infection in the distal colon [20],"

Now this is a mouse model of infectious colitis BUT...

We know from the confocal microscopy paper that in IBD patients regardless of Crohn's or Ulcerative Colitis roughly 80+% had mucosal bacteria present in their Ilium whereas very few, if any, control's did not. AND we know from that same paper in Ulcerative Colitis 100% had mucosal bacteria present in their distal colon.

Sh!t runs downstream... or downhill.. as the saying goes... so perhaps this is why the whole distal thing...

Post Edited (Canada Mark) : 7/13/2014 8:25:10 PM (GMT-6)

Ok here's a "outside of the box" thought that just popped in mind:

What are the chances that a dramatic shift in the bacteria to ummm bad/"dysbiois" causes a change in the way that what we eat is broken down - so it alters the peptides normally present from bacterial metabolism and byproducts making them highly immunogenic.

Ummmm... so think and excessive amount of bad bacteria munching away on large molecules to break them down and get at their required source of nutrients. Different bacteria would take different bites - and maybe some of these bites (from the bad guys) leave leftover protein fragments that are immunogens.

Much like that recent paper on how certain f.fragilis strains break down gliadin into peptides that are then immunogenic. So think this mechanism but on a larger and broader scale.