Wild Oregano/Thyme Oil results for Crohns-Coltis

CM- Maybe after 4 months azathioprine reached the therapeutic level in your body. Time frame for aza treatment to reach the therapeutic level is generally 3-4 months. And also, how did you adjust the dosage(of woo-thyme oil)?
from this study:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2233768/#!po=47.5000
"We applied three doses of thyme and oregano essential oil combination (0.4% thyme and 0.2% oregano oils, 0.2% thyme and 0.1% oregano oils, 0.1% thyme and 0.05% oregano oils) to mice with TNBS-induced colitis, and found that administration of the medium dose decreased the mortality rate from 53% to 33%, significantly accelerated the body weight gain recovery, and significantly reduced the macroscopic damage of the colonic tissue. In animals fed with the two other doses of the essential oils, we did not find a significant improvement in the mortality rate, body weight gain recovery, or colonic tissue damage."


Finding the medium dose for human...

"Examination of IL-1β and IL-6 protein expression in our experiment confirmed the best efficacy of the medium dose of thyme and oregano oil combination in the suppression of colitis. The cytokine protein level in animals treated with the medium dose, but not in animals treated with the other two doses, was significantly lower than in the untreated colitic animals. The low effectiveness in attenuating the colitis found after administration of the highest dose of thyme and oregano oil combination could be connected with possible cytotoxic effects of higher concentrations of these oils. In our preliminary experiments with intact mice, we found negative effects of higher concentrations of thyme essential oil (1%) and oregano essential oil (0.5%) on body weight and food intake. Moreover, the cytotoxic effect of higher concentrations of these oils has been demonstrated in intestinal cells and lymphocytes [39, 40]. Thus, the lack of the dose dependency found in this study could be due to a combination of positive and negative effects of the highest concentration of thyme and oregano essential oil combination. On the other hand, too low doses of essential oils can be insufficient to reduce the intensity of inflammation. A similar phenomenon was found in the study examining the protective effects of curcumin on TNBS-induced colitis in mice, where the medium tested dose was more effective at improving body weight gain than the lower or higher doses of curcumin. To explain the lack of the dose dependency, authors speculated about curcumin toxicity or about the influence on the food intake. Thus, the use of optimal doses is essential for good efficacy of essential oils (or their components) in attenuating inflammation. Further experiments are needed to establish the most efficient concentration of thyme and oregano essential oil combination."


"In our preliminary experiments (using similar experimental conditions as in the present study), we administered thyme (0.5%, 0.25%, 0.12%) or oregano (0.4, 0.2%, 0.1%) essential oil alone in diet to mice with TNBS-induced colitis and we found no significant positive effect. Furthermore, we observed negative effects on body weight and food intake with oregano at 0.4% concentration. However, we observed a better recovery of body weight after treatment with a combination of these essential oils in preliminary tests. The results of the present study confirm the positive effects of the combined administration of appropriate concentrations of thyme and oregano oils on TNBS-induced colitis. It is known that oregano essential oil possesses strong antimicrobial activity, which is ascribed to carvacrol, the main component of this oil [41]. Thymol, one of the major compounds of thyme essential oil, has anti-inflammatory activity [21]. Thus, it seems that major components of these oils can complement one another, having synergic effects on inflammation so that their combination could exhibit positive preventive or therapeutic effects. A similar phenomenon was found in another study where the effect of peppermint oil and caraway oil on postinflammatory visceral hyperalgesia was examined (using a rat model of TNBS-induced colitis). Neither peppermint nor caraway oil administered individually had a significant effect on postinflammatory visceral hyperalgesia, but combined treatment with these essential oils significantly reduced the visceromotor response [42]."

Post Edited (xy123) : 9/25/2014 9:45:45 PM (GMT-6)

Canada Mark, I don't mean to discredit your success, thank you for sharing it with us, but can't help but also wonder if you were also taking Imuran or any other drugs along with the oils.

I don't think it's fair to say Wild Oregano/Thyme Oil gave you the results you have now if you were also taking other powerful prescription drugs, like Imuran, along with it.

@fightUC -I was thinking the same thing a long time ago and always mention it! These threads get long so you have to read back a bit. Anyway, I've been on Imuran with zero success before (a year or so). Also weekly Methotrexate injections for 2 years with no success... and all the other drugs as well. Been at it for 12 years so I have a pretty good idea of what works and doesn't for me. This time I combine the WOO/Thyme with the Imuran and wham... major success. I can't attribute this success to Imuran alone magically working this time. But I do feel it helps. The two, in theory, should work very well together. When I started this based on other people's success I requested from my GI that I go back on Imuran as well as I had a plan. He took care of the blood tests to make sure all went well. Did them weekly for quite a few months and now just bi-monthly.

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@kathleen - That's awesome and interesting because the blood "inside" the mucus was the first thing to go for me as well. And again, I'm on Imuran at the same time but I've tried Imuran before without success and without the blood going away - without WOO/Thyme of course.

Mucus was my main and most troublesome issue. It took MONTHS, not weeks haha... and I'm impatient as is. I just kept at it, taking the same thing 3x daily until one day I had my first BM with no visible mucus. The next day however I had some, and slowly over time there was more and more mucus free days. The colour also changed from yellowish to clear...

What I have found is that even today, if I eat a "trigger food" in large quantity I will see some clear mucus the next day along with some looser but formed stool or D minus the mucus. It took me forever to figure what was a safe food. I know from over the years that I can always eat hard boiled eggs, apple, grapes, medium cheddar cheese and home made chicken soup soup. If I eat like this (and only this) for two days I have perfect poop. Since I know this is my safe menu, I then try adding things and seeing what happens. Tomatoes kill me, yet ketchup in small quantity is ok. Medium rare or rare steak is a no go. Lobster works awesome. Well cooked veggies are fine. Romain lettuce is fine but field greens kill me. It's crazy. So I learn by sticking to my safe menu till I had normal stool and then adding something in. Over time I am finding more and more safe foods, like Kettle Brand salt and vinegar potato chips! I have zero issue with them, quiona bread or cereal, no issue. So I'm finding more and more safe foods this way. It hard and it sucks though, but worth it.

As far as the Thyme - I'll post a link to a product I take as it has Thyme Oil already in it. Makes it easy. I also sometimes add Cinnamon Cassia Oil to my routine - and this is from a bottle that says "aromatic use only" as well. What I do is instead of using the WOO/Thyme in gel caps, I buy it in liquid drop form, then I add 5 drops to an empty gelatine cap and add 3-5 drops of Cinnamon Cassia Oil into the same capsule. So each capsule has a total of 8-10 drops in a mix of WOO/Thyme/Cinnamon Cassia Oil. It's a bit of a pain, so I always keep gels caps of Woo/Thyme around if I have to travel etc for work. You could try this method and just add 3 drops of Thyme Oil to your WOO in a gel cap and take with some water. See how it goes. Or even just try 1 or 2 drops and work up........

Product: www.healthfirst.ca/productOverview.aspx Gel Caps
www.healthfirst.ca/productOverview.aspx

Or Google HealthFirst OregaSupreme Oil.

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@xyz - I calculated it out at first using liquid drops and Carvacrol and Thymol content and kept a log of things, but really just do the super easy thing - take 5 drops 3x daily of liquid WOO or one gel cap 3x daily and call it a day... If you can get the WOO/Thyme blend then even better. See if you see some success after a period of time - say 2 months or so. Maybe consider adding Cinnamon Cassia Oil as mentioned above.

Post Edited (Canada Mark) : 9/26/2014 3:52:09 PM (GMT-6)

Sorry if this has been mentioned in the previous version of this thread but is one able to order WOO or Thyme Oil over the internet? (preferably already incased in gel capsules)

Thanks CM. I am able to find the oregano oil, but finding thyme oil has proven much harder, at least the editable sort. Are ive checked the health food store without my success.

Yes - I also used clove oil - haha.. I used to make a Woo/thyme/clove/cinnamon oil mix with good success but it took a long time and was pain in the butt. I just mention the WOO a lot cause it's what worked the best for me.

There's lot's of threads on here about all these questions... And a papers galore posted on the effects of oils on MAP/AIEC/MRSA bacteria etc etc. You just have to google around or search on here.

I know it's not the probiotic because I have taken them before while flaring with minor effect. Same hold true for the Imuran.

As far as "plants" - both plants and humans/mammals have relationships with bacteria. It may even be fundamentally the same communication wise through NOD receptors and chemicals. There's a bit of a debate on this at the moment. EDC's (endocrine disrupting chemicals) interfere with a plants ability to communicate with root bacteria via chemical signalling as estrogen is used (or a component) along with flavonoids for this - There is question if the same thing is occurring in us... in our guts. So again, a plant really requires bacteria to provide things - Nitrogen is the prime example. When stores are low they signal bacteria and allow them to gain access into their roots and the bacteria provide them with a source of nitrogen. Same thing most likely happens in us where we most likely allow some bacteria to colonize us and "tolerate" them in exchange for certain nutrients - butyrate, vitamins etc etc. So at heart it's the very same thing. Both us and well, every animal and plant have had to learn to live with bacteria and phages etc.... So plants have had a few billion more years than us to get good at being selective with a non-adaptive immune system.

I made a new thread called Endocrine Disrupting Compounds that talks about the above www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=38&m=3194493 There's quite a few new papers on this topic now.

Not that it matters but bacteria actually have immune systems to... which is kinda funky.

Post Edited (Canada Mark) : 9/27/2014 10:13:36 PM (GMT-6)

Hmm - I have my "off" days as well even now - today being one of them. Things just don't quit feel right. In the past I've had many of these as well. I tried cutting back on the WOO and felt the same or still "off", so I just think for me at least perhaps it is the disease. After all the WOO seems to not be a cure, but perhaps a way to substantially lesson the symptoms. All the way through when I started I had lot's of crazy ups and downs for the first few months, but again the down's and "off" days became further and further apart.

I didn't learn until very recently that for me a lot of this was actually "food" related. Or food intolerance.

For me I just give it time - a few days. You could try cutting back and seeing what happens, or you could try stopping it and see if blood returns and if so re-start it if you want to see if it really is the WOO that's helping.

So I would just say trust your body - I've often wondered if the "off" is due to system or bacteria adjustments or something - or just an effect from the WOO itself.

Sorry I don't have any great advice or insight, other than if it continues maybe scale back a bit and see what happens. Unfortunately all we have is our own little experiments to go by. And all I can think of is just tract your body and judgement to let you know what to do.... Which is not very helpful!! ha.

PS - I'd be really interested in seeing if your Iron levels either stabilize or increase over time with this. My nieces did - but she has IBS not IBD.

EDIT - I have found that to much makes me worse though - like above a total of 15 drops per day.

If I exclude the cinnamon oil or clove oil that I add from time to time I think it works out to 237.6mg WOO/Thyme blend daily also excluding the Olive Oil Carrier.

So 0.2376 grams per day of active Carvacrol and Thymol.

If that helps any.

Far, far less compared to some of the studies as you point out. I tired higher with what seemed to be negative results or worsening - but then again maybe it was just a change taking place. Like a bacterial adjustment. I'd be into maybe doubling the dose for a week and seeing what happens out of curiosity if there's a chance it might help others as well.

Maybe let's give some thoughts to dosing and I'll be a bit of a Guinea Pig here. There are some good studies on low dose amounts added to animal feed for reduction in bacterial infections as an alternative to ABX added. The dosage was low and results pretty darn high. As well the minimum inhibitory concentrations for them are quite low against certain pathogenic bacteria such as MAP, AIEC etc... So maybe we can do some digging and reading and work something new out that might help people.

I can do it for a week, see what happens and get my blood work as well to make sure nothing weird that happens with the Imuran and such.

Again I think your right where the to low a dose for to short a time might be causing others not to see benefit.

In the end as happy as I am right now, it's the most frustrating thing to be sooooo close to normal but not quite able to get there. It's actually a mild form of torture in a way - like a tease...

Aza has effect on some intracellular bacteria.
http://aac.asm.org/content/52/2/418.long
Maybe it is neither woo alone nor aza alone but the combination of them with these dosages is for you.

I think I'm in the same boat as Mark. I have been on WOO for almost a year now with nothing but great success. I took it regularly on a specific schedule multiple times a day for 2-3 months. Since I have been in remission for several months I forget to take it, but tend to do it still once a day, maybe 4-5 times a week. What I have noticed after several months is kind of like what Mark is talking about being a "little off" but nothing that is a show stopper. I might have a day or two that things aren't "processing smoothly" but they are small bumps in the road especially compared to a minor flare. Most of these times are around times I'm either more stressed or I have eaten something that I know I shouldn't have. I feel like the WOO has done me wonders but I feel like there is a piece still missing. That missing piece is what I blame on the "little off days". I have only taken 5ASA's during my time taking WOO, so I'm pretty sure the drugs are not the only reason I went into remission with a year long flare, they might of helped a lot but it was the WOO that did it, the 5ASA's were just holding me down to a mild-moderate flare from getting worse.

I plan on sticking with the WOO until it proves it isn't doing anything for me, fingers crossed that never happens but this is UC so time will tell. I just wish I could find that small missing piece to add to it that will take care of the little off issues and put over the top, until then I just feel like I'm waiting for the shoe to drop, hope it doesn't.

I am interested in adding Thyme oil to the OoO regime, according to the supp that Mark takes it has 63% carvacrol. I am not sure if that is the white or red oil, according to the site below its neither. www.experience-essential-oils.com/thyme-oil.html

I don't want to take a supplement that doesnt specifically say what it has in it..I have a huge drawer full of supplements and don't want to add another one to the graveyard.

Any suggestions?

I am taking the Greek OoO that will make any man cry when taking it, I was talking about the carvacrol amount in the Thyme oil. Every oil I have found on the innerwebs doesn't have it's carvacrol listed and given there are different types of the oil..I can't assume it has any at all in it. I will do some more digging for a thyme supplement with the carvacrol listed. I can't get the supplement you take in the US correct?

I think you're right.

I know 46 millilitres in one shot won't kill you. Remember I mentioned a while ago about my friend in his 20's that downed half a bottle of WOO - 1/2 a bottle! in one shot - He felt if a little helps with a cold, then a lot would be better... Ahh to be young again. He feels it was just after doing this that his Crohn's symptoms set in. Depending on thoughts of the disease this may be similar to antibiotic use triggering it.

In the end, he however seems to have recovered (he was diagnosed with Chrohn's via colonoscopy and barium X-ray). He went 100% SCD and used lot's of home made 24-36 hour yogurt and such. Seems to be perfectly fine today which is about 2 years after.

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So far the double dose of 2 gel caps 3x daily has resulted in very solid, normal stool... I'm intrigued so I'll keep at it till I notice something bad. This is day 3.