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Posted 11/10/2014 12:53 PM (GMT 0)
Hi guys! I'm sure this question was asked before. But did anyone have real success with SCD? Or any diet of the sort? I've been dealing with about a two inch flair (proctitis) for about 4 months now. I've tried every enama and suppository there is and nothing seems to work:( bleeding is very mild but it's still there and the urgency to go to the bathroom makes me nuts. My doctor wants me to go on 6mp but I really don't want to. Any suggestions?
Posted 11/10/2014 2:12 PM (GMT 0)
You will find some have had success removing gluten and dairy from their diets, though the SCD is as strict as they come. For me, it was a starvation diet and I felt better by adding in "safe starches" like rice, potatoes, plantains, etc. Look into the perfect health diet by the Jaminets (Phd's) - it's almost like the SCD, but provides the science behind eating the safe starches I just mentioned.

There also appears to be emerging data showing the reduction of a few inflammatory markers by eliminating gluten, so I don't think that can hurt to eliminate wheat altogether. On the gastrointestinal side, gluten elimination provides a reduction in IBS symptoms. Studies will be provided on request because I am tired of constantly linking them.

My suggestion for you would be to try an elimination diet (no wheat, dairy, etc), but not to starve yourself like most people do on the SCD. The worst thing someone could do during a flare is to not provide the body with adequate nutrition.

Best.
Posted 11/10/2014 2:25 PM (GMT 0)
Thanks for the advise I'm going to look into it. How long did it take you to see good results on the diet?
Posted 11/10/2014 2:29 PM (GMT 0)
I kind of disagree. You are in fact partially starving and poisoning your body anyway when you are in a flare because of of the lack of digestion and leaky gut. The SCD diet is of great benefit to many because they have an imbalance of bad bacteria or yeast. The SCD diet starves the bad bacteria, which thrive on starches and sugars.

What should be the first step is to get a comprehensive stool test to see exactly what pathogens you might be dealing with and what good bacteria you might be lacking. Then diet, possibly an antibiotic (preferably natural) and rebuilding with probiotics is the way to remission.
Posted 11/10/2014 2:45 PM (GMT 0)
well there haven/t been many since I've been around here - a few maybe -

not many folks have the stamina to deal with scd - it's way too complicated and time consuming -

it's an ok concept, but it reality it has no better track record than any other non-med program -

how long were you on the scd diet BB ?
Posted 11/10/2014 2:57 PM (GMT 0)

boris_badenof said...
I kind of disagree. You are in fact partially starving and poisoning your body anyway when you are in a flare because of of the lack of digestion and leaky gut. The SCD diet is of great benefit to many because they have an imbalance of bad bacteria or yeast. The SCD diet starves the bad bacteria, which thrive on starches and sugars.

What should be the first step is to get a comprehensive stool test to see exactly what pathogens you might be dealing with and what good bacteria you might be lacking. Then diet, possibly an antibiotic (preferably natural) and rebuilding with probiotics is the way to remission.

I agree but look up the dangers of going too low carb. Most people hit ketosis because they cut out the carbs and don't have anything else except fats, fructose (from fruits/juices) and proteins to eat.

Resistant starches (like those found in potatoes, plantains) provide satiety as well as prebiotics for the bacteria. ]Here's a good science based explanation of why they are not just important, but crucial for healing the gut.

Best.
Posted 11/10/2014 2:57 PM (GMT 0)
I started SCD years ago, but modified from it as I learned more about UC. My diet still follows mostly SCD, though its not necessarily intentional. SCD doesn't allow psyllium for example, which I am a big proponent of, and some of the probiotics I take. So my diet is really based on not feeding my bad bacteria, which still seems to rise up quickly if I eat sugar or any starches. When I have symptoms of a flare, I quickly drop even the cooked vegetables I normally eat a lot of, and go to chicken, chicken soup and eggs, because that's what works for me. But I can't stress enough getting a really good stool test done (I use Doctor's Data) is so necessary IMHO, to guiding your diet and probiotic supplementation in the right direction.
Posted 11/10/2014 3:16 PM (GMT 0)
I could be wrong, but don't the good bacterias need sugars and starches too ?

that is part of the problem it seems - you can't take away one thing without affecting something else - I know for a fact it's way to complicated for me to even begin to understand - so I don't even try -
Posted 11/10/2014 3:29 PM (GMT 0)
thanks everyone for your input. so my question still remains is it worth going on the scd? my goal is to get myself into remission without the use of biologics.
Posted 11/10/2014 3:37 PM (GMT 0)
Short answer is in these situations your good bacteria has been overrun and supplanted. I think of it as a garden full of weeds, where you want to grow flowers. You don't just dump the flower seed on top of the weeds. You make room for the good bacteria by removing the weeds first. I think this is extremely complex like you say soystud. I am really just emphasizing the basics to help get people on the right path. Afterward introducing for example resistant starches to help the good bacteria being introduced to take hold and other strategies can be tried, but knowing what you are dealing with and sticking with a restrictive diet are necessary in my opinion, otherwise take the easy way and suppress your immune system and pay the price later in life.
Posted 11/10/2014 4:32 PM (GMT 0)
Both the good and bad bacteria feed on starches. When you starve off the bad, you also starve off the good, making the SCD counter-intuitive and harmful in the long run.

There were a couple studies that analyzed the flora of those in ketosis (or a diet without fermentable fibers). Jeff Leach, the head of the human food project, posted a telling article with flora analysis here. It made me rethink my perspective on the SCD and other various diets that starve off flora by restricting fermentable fibers.

There are now not just hundreds, but thousands of studies (see PubMed) showing the benefits of RS in diet. We also have archeological data of civilizations that thrived off these starches and were in vibrant health, so the historical perspective is there.

RS is also the primary fuel source of the colon, with glutamine and glucose being the secondary and tertiary source. It would be wise not to restrict RS, as we need them for apoptosis to occur. The lack of RS in western diets might explain why colon cancer is on the rise.

Best.

Post Edited (Guardian7) : 11/10/2014 9:36:12 AM (GMT-7)

Posted 11/10/2014 5:06 PM (GMT 0)
I bought the SCD book because of all the good reviews in hopes of finding a better routine than what I was doing and I personally was very disappointed. Right from the get go I didn't like it because her saying that our ancestors ate strictly what we could forge and making references to evolution which I personally do not believe. I am more Garden of Eden diet centered, fruits vegetables, nuts, legumes.

When I was flaring I started eating at first home made banana pudding and home cooked farm raised chicken soup, this was very easily digestible for me and helped a great deal. After that I moved on to home made oat meal pancakes in the morning with peanut butter and real maple syrup and eat all cooked foods.

My diet is primarily no gluten,dairy,caffeine,soda, sugar very very rarely (no candy or nasty sugar like that), very selective meats (only high quality, local farm raised) and as little processed as possible. It has done wonders for me and helped me get out of my last flare super fast. I also juice cabbage and carrots daily which are very healing for your colon and take some other supplements. I would cut out all processed foods if I was you, cook your own easily digestible foods, and then go from there, but thats just my opinion :)

Oh and I just wanted to add that probably the most thing for me maintaining good gut is stress, stress brought on both my flares and many other people agree that it is a huge factor, stress relief and breathing techniques work really well for me.

Post Edited (Ctech21) : 11/10/2014 10:16:38 AM (GMT-7)

Posted 11/10/2014 5:10 PM (GMT 0)
Hey Guardian, I have followed Jeff's blog too and have gained a lot of insight by his work. I don't want to argue the point, but just clarify my position. When someone is flaring I believe they are in a state of imbalance (dysbiosis), which can be confirmed with a stool test. Also not all bacteria feed on the same thing, but the bad guys do seem to be the ones that feed on sugars and starches! Anyway once the imbalance occurs you have to go after the bad bacteria.

The SCD or paleo, or candida diets to me are not counter intuitive to me because:
- I believe it is a healthy diet, which is obviously a point of contention
- you don't feed something you are trying to kill
- even after balance is restored, eating a diet that doesn't limit sugars and starches will cause a flare as the bad pathogens seem to proliferate quickly
- I believe sugar and simple starches feed cancer

On the other hand just doing either the SCD/Paleo/Candida diets without a strategy for killing the bad bacteria using some kind of natural anti-fungal or anti bacteria will really be a long road. While taking something like oregano oil, colloidal silver,.. using transient bacteria like saccharomyces boulardii is really helpful. And I also supplement with bifido or lacto formulas, by spacing things out. Like oregano oil in the morning, probiotic in the evening. Once the flare is completely over, probiotics with resistant starch is an interesting strategy. But I haven't tested this yet, but plan to soon. In any case even if I could go back to eat lots of starchy food, I wouldn't because I don't think it is healthy and sooner or later I believe it would trigger another flare.
Posted 11/10/2014 5:36 PM (GMT 0)
Boris -

I do think certain starches are harmful (wheat, certain legumes, etc), and many would probably benefit by elimination. I'd also argue that for optimal nutrition, the colon (and our gut bacteria) do need to feed on RS to heal, but obviously we have differing opinions on this. My strategy would be a pincer attack - just give the body enough time and enough good bacteria (along with prebiotics) to overpower the bad. From my understanding of candida, it will always exist and it just needs to be kept in check, which is why anti-candida diets are misleading in some ways.

I think Elaine had great intentions with the SCD, but the landscape of starches has changed tremendously since she wrote her book. From what I recall, she did do some backtracking with some starches like plantains when someone asked about it (you'd have to google the questions).

For the time being, we'd have to agree to disagree. If you find that it helps, then by all means keep sticking with it. Trusting your body is the best thing you could do. I really wanted the SCD to work, but it just made me feel weak and tired all the time, and I can't help but warn others of my experience.

Interesting that you are also a fellow Jeff Leach fan. :)

Best.
Posted 11/10/2014 5:51 PM (GMT 0)
The SCD diet did not work for me. I actually got more sick and started to lose weight (that I did not want or need to lose).

It really does seem to work well for some people. It might be worth a try if you're really interested. Some people seem to have great success in controlling their colitis with diet.
Posted 11/10/2014 5:54 PM (GMT 0)
Hi Guardian,

It seem we have some minor differences, but really we're very close to being on the same page. On our differences, I would say the pincer strategy is where we differ the most. And I only highlight it, for others that might be reading. I really do think the easiest way to get control of a flare is to get on an elimination diet first.

I used to feel discouraged coming to this forum for a while because I felt sad that so many people were taking the pharmaceutical path. I am really glad to meet you and many of the others who really have great insights on this awful disease based on doing their own research on natural approaches.

All the best,
Bear
Posted 11/10/2014 6:22 PM (GMT 0)
Ok thanks. How long do you give yourself on the diet before realizing it's not going to work for you? I don't want the bleeding (though minimal) to last too long
Posted 11/10/2014 6:28 PM (GMT 0)
Sphora, this is just my opinion. But if you go on the strict elimination diet phase of SCD you should be seeing some improvement within a few days. You can message me privately if you have any questions and I will try to help.
Posted 11/10/2014 6:32 PM (GMT 0)
Right now my diet consists of home made chicken soup, extra lean beef patties and eggs. It's only day two and pretty much same urge to go and still bleeding. Not sure how to progress from here. Would love to see improvement sometime soon!
Posted 11/10/2014 6:36 PM (GMT 0)
Thanks so much, Boris.How do I go about messaging you? I'm new to this
Posted 11/10/2014 6:47 PM (GMT 0)
Sephora, it's tough to advise someone when they are in a flare, because any wrong move can be a big deal. So just some safe picky things first. Only seasoning you should use is sea salt for now. If you are cooking chicken soup with veggies or onions I would remove them from the recipe for a couple of days. Ground meat has more bacteria, so it would be better to eat steaks. Eggs should be hard boiled or microwaved, but no milk added and definitely not fried.

My secret weapons to flare-ups has always been psyllium and clay. Psyllium is very binding and slows me down. But it might be risky to introduce during flare as it will make you gassy at first. If you did try it, start with one teaspoon at night. There are some good threads on using clays if you search the forum.
Posted 11/10/2014 7:39 PM (GMT 0)
Ok thanks for your advise! I really appreciate it. Do you also recommend probiotics now? Or fish pil capsules (vitamin D)? Or multi vitamin?
Posted 11/10/2014 7:52 PM (GMT 0)
I would stop the supplements for now. Finding the right probiotic is very hit and miss, particularly without a stool test to see what's going on in your gut.

PS if you click on my name, you can get my email info if you need it. I am happy to try to help, but I am not a doctor so you must decide for yourself or talk to a doctor before taking any course of action.
Posted 11/10/2014 8:05 PM (GMT 0)
I think SCD diet is a great idea and it sounds good in theory but it didn't work for me. It was expensive too. I also spent money on cookbooks... Overall, I got no benefit from the diet and I spent a lot of money. I think you will find mixed results if you do a search here. There are people who swear by all types of things. I don't think any are too heavily focused on SCD here, lots of people try it but I rarely see anyone relying on it, most people find what works for them and it's very individual. I only ate organic chicken broth for 4 days last time I was flaring severely and that didn't stop the symptoms one bit. In my case, I think even if I stopped eating, my symptoms would be miserable.
Posted 11/10/2014 8:24 PM (GMT 0)
Ok. What clay do you recommend? I'm willing to give anything a try
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