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Ulcerative Colitis
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Posted 3/6/2015 8:38 AM (GMT 0)
Hi all,

I'm 35 YO, been diagnosed with Proctitis 20 months ago. I've (nicely) managed going on remission while taking 12 days course of FMT, I kept administrating once a week for 6 weeks more.

I've been seeing an almost immediate change in stool form and smell as becoming similar to the donor. After 30 days from the first FT I had no blood no mucous in stool but solid poop 1-2 times a day. At that moment I was already administrating FT once a week.

At some point I had realized some small stains of blood in stool that happen to be once a week or two (no mucous), also the stool form retreat to its origin rather building up as the donor, but remained solid though.

The FT put me on remission - that is a fact but I fail to understand why donor's bacteria in my gut flora does not get grip and multiply which forces me keep doing FT for prolong time?

I had a restrictive process with food modification and took 5ASA meds before-during-and-after FTs.

Appreciate any response that may help,
Thank your very much.
Posted 3/6/2015 4:14 PM (GMT 0)
Why should I answer your question? You aren't anyone special.

Just kidding.

Though I don't have a good answer, I guess it depends on how long you've been doing the FMT treatments. Perhaps the bacteria must be supplied with food (prebiotic fibers) in order to thrive and colonize. You might want to research things like resistant starches, inulin, fermentable fibers and so fourth. Freetheanimal.com has a good primer on resistant starches and their effect on feeding the bacteria. Another wonderful blog on gut health is http://www.drbganimalpharm.blogspot.com/.

Perhaps this is a question for a FMT expert on powerofpoop or Michael Hurst (FecalTransplantForUC).

Best.
Posted 3/6/2015 4:20 PM (GMT 0)
That's a good start point. Thanks for that.
Posted 3/6/2015 6:41 PM (GMT 0)
This is the million dollar question, right? It happened to me too - temporary remission while doing FT, smell changed etc. But then back to flare after discontinuing. Are the bad guys crowding out the good guys? Do we need to immediately feed the good guys a special diet? Something else? I guess this is the reason why FT is still a grey area for UC. I believe that the people who have success with it are the ones who manage to stumble across the right formula - compatible donor, effective delivery, the right diet, along with favourable lifestyle factors and other unknowns that I'm sure we will learn about in the coming years.
Posted 3/6/2015 7:39 PM (GMT 0)
I must admit this really disappointing. There is an unknown "gap" between those who succeeded and those in remission.
Posted 3/6/2015 9:07 PM (GMT 0)
something about the disease, or conditions secondary to the disease, seem to keep pushing the gut microbes back into dysbiosis.

you got a better response than a lot of folks in clinical trials did, and like the trial, you seem to have evidence that it takes an FMT maintenance program to sustain benefits. in your case might be worth it since you had such a good response.

one thought I've had is that if it is some of the anerobic species making the difference, you could be delivering only dead ones with the FT. Especially if a blender is used. Too much exposure to air. Maybe if you could fill the blender with nitrogen or something.

Post Edited (DBwithUC) : 3/7/2015 11:39:46 AM (GMT-7)

Posted 3/7/2015 3:41 AM (GMT 0)
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/840716
In case the link doesn't work, Google medscape- title of article is Colon & Ileum contain Distintly Different Dendritic Cells.
FMT can leave us unprotected with unwanted consequences. There are so very many variables we don't yet comprehend. I am glad you found some relief. Good luck on your journey. I am not smart enough to describe how the adaptation of new matter works or doesn't work.
Posted 3/7/2015 6:09 AM (GMT 0)
FT put me immediately into remission too. That was some six to eight years ago. I was really big on FT back then. But food has changed over the years. As a result, the bacteria composition of most people has changed. You may not be getting enough of the right bacteria. You may be consuming foods that are causing the bacteria in your colon to become imbalanced again after during FT.

Yes. FT worked for me. I have my colon today because of FT. However, I do have to avoid many of today's foods (primarily GMOs and artificial sweeteners). And I will use a mesalamine suppository once in a blue moon if I ended up consuming something I shouldn't have consumed and got a reaction from it.

I'm also careful not to take antibiotics unless absolutely necessary.

That being said, I think of FT as a super probiotic.

I don't understand why some people are so scared of it. I think it's a lot less risky than having sex.
Posted 3/7/2015 3:17 PM (GMT 0)
There's some research (which I'll find soon) suggesting that bacteria take a years to grow and flourish after antibiotic courses, so this might take some time. As subdued said, I think it's generally just a case of feeding the good ones and keeping the bad ones in check. The imbalance generated from diet, antibiotics, stress, etc seem to be a great predictor of autoimmunity and future health problems. We are 10 times our microbes than cells, so they are doing far more than just existing.

Prior to and after my UC diagnosis, I ate GMOs, wheat and other processed foods daily. It wasn't until after an unnecessary antibiotic course a few years back that I realized the central role of gut bacteria in just about every health affliction I had. From anxiety to joint issues, the gut holds the key to healing these things.

I would definitely work on reconstruction of the bacteria. This means things like stress reduction, getting proper sleep, eating well but also allowing yourself to eat junk food from time to time as well.

For the bacteria, put emphasis on foods like fermented vegetables (sauerkraut, beet kvass), kefir, raw milk, soil based organisms, playing with dirt. One of the reasons the Amish have low rates of autoimmunity and allergies is because they are more connected with nature.

I don't understand why some people are so scared of it. I think it's a lot less risky than having sex.

This is true... HPV sounds like a pain to deal with and it can be transmitted in many ways.
Posted 3/7/2015 4:39 PM (GMT 0)
It may be the case that it's not the bacteria that is putting people into remission, but rather small chemical compounds that the bacteria from the donor produce. This kinda makes sense in one light because 99% of the bacteria transplanted are anaerobes and they will generally be killed in the FMT procedure.

Furthermore, analyses of the bacterial recipients showed that their composition was not the same as the donor also suggesting that it's not the live bacteria themselves that are doing anything. All of this may or may not be correct, but perhaps if we do want the donor bacteria to thrive readily, then the existing bacteria in your gut need to be killed off first with antibiotics as Borody (FMT pioneer) has suggested. Although other studies suggest this is not necessary. But who knows, unfortunately.
Posted 3/7/2015 6:12 PM (GMT 0)
I had questions from another thread HERE and those are as follow:

@FecalTransplantFortUC:
I realize there is another thread ('counting success stories...") you post in because I hit on your username but there are so many I just wanted to grab this as it includes others from years ago.
How are you doing now?
Also you said, "For healing the ulceration and stopping blood the whey protein shakes that contained L-Glutamine were highly effective for me. I have also heard good things from others who have used just L-Glutamine..." - still believe this as I saw posts later than this where it put others in a flare? thanks!

@trogen: How is your son doing? Any diet special he eats as I'm curious since he's older now and you might have less control over that (more so 12 on up). It's been a while since you posted so hoping all is well and you don't have time for this anymore

I asked for other's progress from the last many years as well please. I'm going to learn more on web searches but wondered where these users have gone.

Thanks
Posted 3/7/2015 9:01 PM (GMT 0)
Just a thought...
Is your food habits same as your donor? If not try to match it up as close as possible.
Or the inflammation could be far up that FT enema couldn't reach...
Posted 3/8/2015 9:56 PM (GMT 0)
I'm in Canada....struggling to find someone to do this. I have no donor so need to go to a clinic. Where did you get it done?
Posted 3/9/2015 6:18 AM (GMT 0)
Here is the reply I got from "powerofpoop":

The gut wall needs to heal sufficiently to colonise new microbiota. Clearly yours still has a way to go. There may also be genetic factors that stop it healing fully.

Home Frozen stool is not nearly as potent as fresh, so try and use fresh where possible. Also try mushing it in a zip lock bag instead of using a blender as exposure to air damages anaerobic microbiota.

Also check out the Briggs protocol for gut healing. It's in the files section of the facebook FMT group or I can send it to you later today.
Posted 3/9/2015 6:27 AM (GMT 0)
Rbartolo - I prepare and administer FT by my self. The inflammation in my particular case are in the rectum end so using enema may be efficient.
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