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Darn flu caused UC to act up

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Posted 3/26/2015 4:09 PM (GMT 0)
My son brought home Flu B from school and after taking care of him, I got it myself :( Yes, we took the flu shot but to no avail. Anyway, I am usually simmering but mostly under control....well this flu is setting things off. I am increasing all my rectal meds (seems mostly in rectum...stools formed but some blood and M and urgency) I am upset about this. I had the flu 2 years ago (took the shot than too, but to no avail) it did not bother my UC. I've even had stomach viruses that didn't bother it. What has been your experience of UC acting up when sick? Did it calm down after the virus was gone? Any advice? Boo.

Thanks,
B
Posted 3/26/2015 5:32 PM (GMT 0)
Yes, this has happened to me and yes, things did calm down once the viral illness was gone.

So sorry you got the flu. Did anyone suggest tamiflu to you? My daughter got the flu in December and we got tamiflu for her and she was better within a day, it was weird.
Posted 3/26/2015 6:21 PM (GMT 0)
Thanks Kazbern. I took Tamiflu when I got Flu A 2 years ago and I got horrible naseau and started throwing up, it was awful! So I didn't want to go down that road again. With my son, we were too late to give it and I had my reservations after what happened to me. Awesome that it worked so well for your daughter though, that is great!

I am also so glad to hear that it calmed down after. Not only is my UC acting up but so is my Gastritis. I am feeling pretty low and miserable so your words helped give hope. Do you remember how long it took for your immune system to chill out? This really blows :(
B
Posted 3/26/2015 6:24 PM (GMT 0)
I don't want to wreck the tamiflu party, but the recently released data suggests it does not work. It appears that roche deliberately withheld important clinical trial information to increase sales:

Today we found out that Tamiflu doesn't work so well after all. Roche, the drug company behind it, withheld vital information on its clinical trials for half a decade, but the Cochrane Collaboration, a global not-for-profit organisation of 14,000 academics, finally obtained all the information. Putting the evidence together, it has found that Tamiflu has little or no impact on complications of flu infection, such as pneumonia.

That is a scandal because the UK government spent £0.5bn stockpiling this drug in the hope that it would help prevent serious side-effects from flu infection. But the bigger scandal is that Roche broke no law by withholding vital information on how well its drug works. In fact, the methods and results of clinical trials on the drugs we use today are still routinely and legally being withheld from doctors, researchers and patients. It is simple bad luck for Roche that Tamiflu became, arbitrarily, the poster child for the missing-data story.

I think they did a wonderful job of conning the government, since it made around 18 billion dollars total, with many countries stockpiling it for future flu outbreaks. So, not only are they stealing $100 from every consumer that buys it, you are guaranteed to have something that has a high probability of causing flu like symptoms.

So, any effect felt by tamiflu is most likely the placebo effect.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

My suggestion would be to get plenty of rest, hydrate yourself and load up on vitamin C.

Best.

Post Edited (Guardian7) : 3/26/2015 12:27:52 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 3/26/2015 6:31 PM (GMT 0)
I can't speak to how Tamiflu works because I had such a horrid reaction 2 years ago, but I did try Oscillococonum ( a homeopathic remedy OTC with a silly name but good reviews). Hard to say if it helped. I still feel crappy...but would I have felt worse...who knows? What is bothering me the worst now is the UC and Gastritis that it has triggered. I am an unhappy gal :(
Posted 3/26/2015 6:47 PM (GMT 0)
Well, Guardian, I am here to testify that my daughter had a fever, I took her to the DR, she swabbed positive for flu, I gave her tamiflu and the next day she had no fever. She had the flu vaccine this year and her initial fever was not very high when I picked her up from school (101), so her viral infection might not have been the most resilient to begin with, but I was pretty darn impressed with the tamiflu.

Do with that what you will.

Hateuc, IIRC it was a couple of weeks past acute viral onset that my IBD stuff lightened up. For me it was an HSV outbreak on my mouth that triggered the IBD.

My recent experience with a relapse of rectal inflammation included horrible gastritis. I think rectal inflammation causes gastroparesis (for me). Glad to know you're hitting those rectal meds hard.
Posted 3/26/2015 7:00 PM (GMT 0)
Interesting Kazbern, yet again, seems that the rectal inflammation can cause weird upper gi issues. So annoying!!!! I hope it will go away soon, I really would like to eat food again. I always use rectals so now I will be using them all day (ugh). Hopefully though it will do the trick and everything calms down and I can go back to the normal rectal schedule.(there's a sentence I never thought I would be saying pre-UC) I feel like poop.
Posted 3/26/2015 7:10 PM (GMT 0)

kazbern said...
Well, Guardian, I am here to testify that my daughter had a fever, I took her to the DR, she swabbed positive for flu, I gave her tamiflu and the next day she had no fever. She had the flu vaccine this year and her initial fever was not very high when I picked her up from school (101), so her viral infection might not have been the most resilient to begin with, but I was pretty darn impressed with the tamiflu.

Do with that what you will.

Hateuc, IIRC it was a couple of weeks past acute viral onset that my IBD stuff lightened up. For me it was an HSV outbreak on my mouth that triggered the IBD.

My recent experience with a relapse of rectal inflammation included horrible gastritis. I think rectal inflammation causes gastroparesis (for me). Glad to know you're hitting those rectal meds hard.

There are cases where severe UC goes into remission with the placebo, so it is that powerful. I'm not discounting your daughter's experience, as personal experience triumphs everything to me, BUT there could have been other factors surrounding the reduction in fever. That being said, if tamiflu worked for whatever reason (and I strongly believe it was the placebo effect given the recent evidence), then perhaps is worth taking again for reassurance reasons.
Posted 3/26/2015 7:12 PM (GMT 0)
My daughter had flu last year as an 11 month old. She woke up in the middle of the night with a 104* fever and we took her to the doctor that next morning, where she tested positive for flu. We started Taiflu that day, during which she ran a very high fever. The next day, her fever was gone, although she "acted sick" still. The next day, she was totally back to normal.

My daughter had her flu vaccine that year, so I'm sure it played a role, but I also think there's a very good chance Tamiflu helped.

Because she was so young, the placebo effect could not have played a role.

I will say that I don't think Tamiflu is the miracle that it was originally claimed/thought to be. If I get influenza, I'll likely not take it and I probably wouldn't fill it for my son, as he's much older. However, because my daughter was so young at that point and influenza complications are more prevalent in babies, I thought it was wise to use it.
Posted 3/26/2015 7:22 PM (GMT 0)
Fruitgirl - The placebo effect has been seen in babies and animals, so it's possible she isn't impervious to it. It's possible she has the conditioning required to believe it would work for her.

The effect has been observed in animals and babies. However, in practice this requires conditioning first, which is analogous to just telling someone a treatment will work when you can't communicate more directly.

I'm not discounting her experience. If it worked, then something about it helped... even your reassurance to her that it would do something.
Posted 3/26/2015 7:34 PM (GMT 0)
My daughter has asthma, so we will always be treating influenza as aggressively as we can and avoiding it to the best of our ability by taking the vaccine.
Posted 3/26/2015 7:39 PM (GMT 0)
I imagine that the conditioning would require many instances of reassuring her that the medicine would "make her all better," sort of like a Pavlov's dogs thing. And, who knows how these studies were done. Was it parents observing changes after giving their kids homeopathic teething tablets? Well, then, yes, I can see how placebo effect could come into play, because parents want those darn things to work.

But for something that's not subjective, like a fever? I'd want to see some studies...the articles that were linked in the Wiki article you posted didn't offer any specifics about babies, at least with a quick glance. And I cannot imagine that placebo effect could possibly be that strong in an 11 month old.

Besides, she's had about three non-specified viral infections where she's run high fevers for 3-4 days in a row. I gave Tylenol and Ibuprofen to keep her comfortable. You'd think that if Tamiflu "gave" her that kind of placebo effect (i.e., broke the fever in 24 hours), the Ibuprofen and Tylenol would have done the same.
Posted 3/26/2015 7:51 PM (GMT 0)

fruitgirl said...
I imagine that the conditioning would require many instances of reassuring her that the medicine would "make her all better," sort of like a Pavlov's dogs thing. And, who knows how these studies were done. Was it parents observing changes after giving their kids homeopathic teething tablets? Well, then, yes, I can see how placebo effect could come into play, because parents want those darn things to work.

But for something that's not subjective, like a fever? I'd want to see some studies...the articles that were linked in the Wiki article you posted didn't offer any specifics about babies, at least with a quick glance. And I cannot imagine that placebo effect could possibly be that strong in an 11 month old.

Besides, she's had about three non-specified viral infections where she's run high fevers for 3-4 days in a row. I gave Tylenol and Ibuprofen to keep her comfortable. You'd think that if Tamiflu "gave" her that kind of placebo effect (i.e., broke the fever in 24 hours), the Ibuprofen and Tylenol would have done the same.

Here's one study documenting the placebo for cough reduction in the 2 month to 11 month group:

"We found that placebo was better than doing nothing," said Paul. "For kids under age one, for which there is no other option, the findings may be particularly important."

In a small subgroup of 30 children under age one, agave was more effective than placebo. These results were clinically, though not statistically, significant and should be studied in a larger trial designed for this age group alone, Paul said.

Using a placebo for coughs in young children could reduce inappropriate antibiotic prescriptions.

Also, the pavlov's conditioning was confirmed on a human baby (a 9 month) with the infamous Little Albert experiment.

Again... I'm not discounting the tamiflu, as there is evidence from Roche (though I question this as well) that it does reduce symptom duration and fever. And you are right it's not what it's stacked up to be. So if it works, then keep it up. :-)
Posted 3/26/2015 7:58 PM (GMT 0)
Had bad flu at Christmas 103 temp, no effect on UC one way or the other.
Had noro virus back in I think 05 no effect on UC,which was shocking, based on the amount
of flushing I had.
Old Mike
Posted 3/26/2015 8:13 PM (GMT 0)
I think I found that actual study you reference (not a report about the study), and the parents were the ones recording the amount/severity/ect. of coughing, so perhaps THEY were influenced, and the placebo effect was acting on them, so they reported the cough as being less severe.

My point about Pavlov's dogs is that conditioning takes repeated exposures, as with Little Albert. My daughter did not have repeated exposures to Tamiflu, or any meds, really.
Posted 3/26/2015 8:49 PM (GMT 0)
Well a flu induced exacerbation in Feb 2014 forced me into a clinical trial and I havent recovered since
Posted 3/26/2015 8:58 PM (GMT 0)
That sucks!! Hope you can bounce back (don't know how to spell re-coupe) from what's hopefully just a mini-flare.
Posted 3/26/2015 9:16 PM (GMT 0)
Thanks guys! I hope so pb4. How miserable is it to have flu and than deal with a flare? As we all know, the worst. Your support is always helpful though. I'm hitting the rectal meds hard to hopefully get things back to "normal". I think I am going to live in a big bubble so I can stay well..remember bubble boy? Sounding more appealing now to live that "lifestyle".
B
Posted 3/26/2015 9:59 PM (GMT 0)

fruitgirl said...
I think I found that actual study you reference (not a report about the study), and the parents were the ones recording the amount/severity/ect. of coughing, so perhaps THEY were influenced, and the placebo effect was acting on them, so they reported the cough as being less severe.

My point about Pavlov's dogs is that conditioning takes repeated exposures, as with Little Albert. My daughter did not have repeated exposures to Tamiflu, or any meds, really.

Fair enough.

I would assume the parents keep close watch on the children and know if they are sleeping well or not after administration of the placebo, so maybe they (parents) could have been influenced by it, but maybe not...

Nevertheless, the study implied that anything is better than non-treatment for children's coughs... even the placebo, so I can't help but think that it crosses over to other medications that are given to infants for transient sicknesses. Here is the abridged powerpoint presentation from JAMA Pediatrics that sums up the study. They conclude that:

A significant placebo effect exists in the treatment of young children with nonspecific acute cough because the agave nectar and placebo both resulted in perceived improvement of child symptoms by parents compared with no treatment.

But... your point about Tamiflu helping her makes sense, since tylenol and other medications did not help.

It's time for me to stop going Captain Ahab on pharmaceutical companies and acknowledge they can help some people.

Best.

Post Edited (Guardian7) : 3/26/2015 4:04:33 PM (GMT-6)

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