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Ulcerative Colitis
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Posted 7/3/2015 8:15 PM (GMT 0)
Hi Everyone!

It's been a long time since I last posted (so long that I'm considered a new member again). To update those who don't know me, I was first diagnosed with Ulcerative Colitis about 10 years ago. It was a serious flare. Prednisone wasn't working. So I took matters into my own hands and did fecal transplantation using poo from my six-month old granddaughter who was breast feeding at the time. I went immediately into remission. My GI was in shock.

Since then, I have had only mini flares, which I treat with diet, probiotics, vitamins, minerals, herbs, exercise, meditation, and rest. However, fecal transplantation doesn't work for everyone. I've suspected for a long time that one of the reasons is the quality of the poo and would like to share a link that says the same thing.

"The effect of fecal transplant seems to be dependent on the sort of bacteria that is in the donor stool, which fits with the observations of Dr. Verdu's animal study."

http://www.upi.com/Health_News/2015/07/03/Fecal-transplants-used-successfully-to-treat-ulcerative-colitis/8371435935830/
Posted 7/3/2015 8:48 PM (GMT 0)
is it possible that you had an infection at that point and the fmt helped that?
Posted 7/3/2015 10:44 PM (GMT 0)
Hi Sub:
How did you do the FMT enema, or oral.
I suspect enema, since it was awhile ago.

Thanks Old Mike
Posted 7/3/2015 10:56 PM (GMT 0)
No. I was tested. I had and still do have Ulcerative Colitis. I had been on and off, mostly on, antibiotics from the age of 18 to 35 for skin inflammations. The bacteria in my colon was completely messed up. I then started drinking a lot of bubble teas (made with HFCS). So it's no wonder I got Ulcerative Colitis.

The FT put that serious prednisone-resistant flare into immediate remission. I mean IMMEDIATE. In fact, my joints flared and not my colon during the taper because I tapered too fast.

FT improved my condition, but it did not cure it. I still get mini flares if I eat something wrong or am under a lot of stress. But I've been able to stop flares with Curcumin (with black pepper) and probiotics.

I tried doing FT again when my granddaughter was about two. It wasn't nearly as effective. By then she was eating a lot of junk and farting a lot. I don't think her poo was as good.
Posted 7/3/2015 11:06 PM (GMT 0)
Hi Old Mike,

I've seen you before. (At least I've seen your posts from a long time ago.) Yep. It was a long time ago. I posted about it a long time ago too.

I didn't know fecal transplantation could be done orally. Yep. I did the enema way. Poo from babies that are nursing is more like a yellowish liquid goo, which is another reason the FT worked. It was probably easier for the bacteria to travel and take hold.
Posted 7/4/2015 5:12 AM (GMT 0)
I saw another article on FT not too long ago. I've never tried it, but interesting concept:

Inflammatory Bowel Disease 'Cured' With Fecal Transplant http://bit.ly/1GVwfmW
Posted 7/4/2015 6:44 AM (GMT 0)
The issue of baby poos is odd. The microbiome in a 6 month old should not be developed enough to work. Maybe it is a bacteria the is an early colonizer in babies that was key.

The initial results of this study proclaimed no effects. It is interesting that with longer followup and the period of open-label treatments a significant benefit emerged. Multiple treatments do appear to be important.

But the clinical remission result is described as "modest" and was only significant at .03 level. This is likely due to small sample.

That the good results were mostly from one donor is also interesting.

Anyway, what looked like failure in the early analyses has eeked across the line to success. This will need replication with a larger sample.

It also has to be noted that the percentage of patients who got remission was about 33% (9 out of 27). The success rate of most 5-asa drugs is higher than this.

Really a very mixed bag.
Posted 7/4/2015 8:03 AM (GMT 0)
Sub: The reason I asked is that today, they try FMT nasogastric, or there is a triple gel cap method, where you swallow the pills. both done by doctors.  Then there was the poop shake guy, and currently on here


http://www.crohnsforum.com/showthread.php?t=52400&page=17

there is a guy drinking/eating poo.

There was also which I just posted the other day on a nasogastric trial, where as a control people used their

own poo, which is called autologous. There was also remission achieved with using your own poo, but the

bacteria populations seemingly went in the wrong direction.

I am watching these various trials and trying to determine which way works better and perhaps why.

Old Mike

 

Posted 7/4/2015 2:11 PM (GMT 0)
OM, if the first problem is mucus breach, then how can fecal transplants induce remission for some? Have any idea?
Posted 7/4/2015 2:36 PM (GMT 0)
XY: Still trying to figure that out.
We know the bacteria both modulate the mucus and immune system and vice versa.
We know that in early onset UC not dysbiotic for the most part,perhaps when where the mucus breach occurs, but collateral damage to the gut bugs from the immune cascade/ROS has not taken place yet.
But if say antibiotics trigger UC then possible dysbiosis, I guess.
I suspect after dysbiosis occurs is when most try FMT, so it will tend to change the populations
back to a more normal condition, and enhanced butyrate production.
Another possible is that we have too many mucus eaters,and or ones that produce too much protease/mucinases, that dissolve the mucus.
So, if true then FMT even early on might be the best approach.
If the mucus eaters are replaced by FMT, then might be possible for a quick repair of the gut lining.
Remission can be induced with protease inhibitors, such as camostat, and BBI soybean bowman birk inhibitor. I have threads somewhere, also our anti-trypsin protective system can become overwhelmed/depleted,which would allow for a lot of destruction, in other words you are also being
digested. Another possible is that digestive protease is not being deactivated by certain bacteria that might

be missing.

Of course might be a zillion other reasons.
OM

Post Edited (Old Mike) : 7/4/2015 8:40:00 AM (GMT-6)

Posted 7/4/2015 8:33 PM (GMT 0)

DBwithUC said...

It also has to be noted that the percentage of patients who got remission was about 33% (9 out of 27). The success rate of most 5-asa drugs is higher than this.

Really a very mixed bag.

You are comparing apples with oranges. FT is typically used when all other methods fail. 5-ASA's are used for mild to moderate flares, and when they are used for moderate flares, they are used with Prednisone.

Moreover, 5-ASA drugs are merely a band-aid. They don't solve the problem. They do not re-introduce bacteria (that was lost over time and through antibiotics) back into the colon. FT does. So do probiotics.

Not only that, but 5-ASA's work only for a few days. Yes. I still get flares. But they are mini-flares. If it weren't for FT and probiotics, I would probably be on 5-ASA's daily and Prednisone multiple times by now. And I definitely would have had to go on something harder than Prednisone for that first flare.

And remember FT got my colon in remission when 5-ASA's and Prednisone could not.
Posted 7/4/2015 8:47 PM (GMT 0)
I don't know either Old Mike. I just knew that I had to try something because Prednisone wasn't working; I couldn't tapper off it. I had taken antibiotics for too many years; so I picked poo from the person who had never been on antibiotics. I used the poo immediately. Once a day over three days.

It worked for me. I know it doesn't work for everyone. It could be how they did it. It could be the form the poo was in (too hard). It could be that there weren't the right kinds of bacteria because the donor poo might not have had the right kinds.

I do believe that it's important to take a daily probiotic. I actually haven't been doing that. I tend to take them only when needed. But I really should take them every day--that and a digestive enzyme, which I also haven't been taking every day like I should.
Posted 7/5/2015 11:01 AM (GMT 0)
That is really interesting that you used stool from a 6 month old breast feeding baby. It probably was high in lactobacilli and bifidobacteria plus a lot of other good things.
I had a faecal transplant for my ulcerative colitis at the Royal Adelaide Hospital in Australia. My donor was anonymous and so I don't know their age or details. It worked well for me for 4 months then I had a relapse but overall I've been much improved.
If you want details of what they do it is listed here

/www.crohnsandcolitis.com.au/site/wp-content/uploads/Subject_information_-_Faecel_transplant_for_treatment_of_active_UC.pdf

Post Edited (NicJames) : 7/5/2015 5:07:54 AM (GMT-6)

Posted 7/5/2015 12:00 PM (GMT 0)
Your infant donor -- can you describe how she was born ( vaginal vs c section, how long in labor, natural, etc)? Has she been exposed to any antibiotics since birth. I have become very interested in the gut bacteria inoculation at birth and there are more and more articles about it.

How quickly were able to receive the donation after she had a poo?
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