HealingWell
Search Close Search
☰

Oral Tolerance-FT oral or rectal

Support Forums
>
Ulcerative Colitis
✚ New Topic ✚ Reply
❬ ❬ Previous Thread |Next Thread ❭ ❭
Posted 1/30/2015 5:08 PM (GMT 0)
about time I got back to this have not really looked at it for 15-20 years.

I became re-interested, from our discussion on FT, oral vs rectal.

Seems as a first wild guess that rectal will perhaps not induce tolerance,but perhaps displace dysbiotic bacteria,and or their biofilms, while oral FT might induce tolerance and when they work their way down to the colon also fix some

dysbiosis.

Just starting but here is something to read,I have not even finished it yet. You will also notice it is on my

favorite topic, mucus. But with a different take, what goes on in the small intestine.

Sad cant find much of anything on poop oral tolerance.

Old Mike

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4005805/



dss mice loss of

 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23647697


small intestine goblet cells

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22422267


food and microbial agents

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22288583


lactis

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22129390


not sure what to make of this one

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21714123


more dss mice

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20571813


Alequel

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21180587


possible genetic defect-crap

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16432371


double crap

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15188172

mice ethanol colitis-loss of tolerance

http://www.scielo.br/pdf/bjmbr/v36n9/5056.pdf


zinc deficiency loss of tolerance mice

http://jn.nutrition.org/content/133/1/191.long


 

Post Edited (Old Mike) : 1/31/2015 8:26:08 AM (GMT-7)

Posted 3/28/2015 9:00 PM (GMT 0)
Anyone care to eat the blood and goop that comes out prior to pooping,to get some of the colitic proteins.

Some get grossed out by oral FMT,this perhaps no worse.

These of course I guess were purified as opposed to straight out of the butt.

I say this tongue in cheek, but who knows.

Old Mike

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20571813



oral tolerance ethanol inf gamma glutathione

http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?pid=S0100-879X2003000900013&script=sci_arttext

Post Edited (Old Mike) : 7/1/2015 4:51:56 AM (GMT-6)

Posted 12/30/2015 9:23 AM (GMT 0)
Mike, will be trying to do autologous oral fmt soon, abeit small amount of stool only.

Will post results here soon...

Currently prepping myself with moderate amount of fiber diet. And will only be using stool thats formed.

Fingers crossed.
If results are good...will post back here
Posted 12/30/2015 12:07 PM (GMT 0)
Rebel: Just so you know, this can be very dangerous.

Probably the safest way is using the triple gel cap method. The idea being not to contaminate the

outside of the last gel cap.

You do not want to aspirate any into your lungs, and for sure do not vomit.

If any gets into the lungs a bad infection would result.

Old Mike

Post Edited (Old Mike) : 12/30/2015 5:10:47 AM (GMT-7)

Posted 12/30/2015 12:56 PM (GMT 0)

Old Mike said...
Rebel: Just so you know, this can be very dangerous.Probably the safest way is using the triple gel cap method. The idea being not to contaminate the
outside of the last gel cap.
You do not want to aspirate any into your lungs, and for sure do not vomit.
If any gets into the lungs a bad infection would result.
Old Mike

Mike, i dont necessarily think thats a worry for me at all,
I dont know if you recall, i have posted on crohnsforum but deleted the postlater on, but i have had 2 3day courses of oral fmt with two different donors. Believe me, if anything the risk i clearly see is if it makes me worse off than when i started since i am introducing a possibly dieseased microbiome into me again.

And for the recomendation of triple gel caps etc, i have tried that before, it dissolves in the stomach befoe even reaching the intestines...can telll from the belching! And on a practical basis, ask anyone to try taking a capsule 1/4 empty 3/4 with whatever they want, and put in a cup of water. It floats ....until it dissolves..
Air less dense
Posted 12/30/2015 1:18 PM (GMT 0)
Also mike,

Questions regarding autologous fmt,

One thing that i keep noticing regarding research is that 'lack of oral tolerance in crohns', yet from the studies you have posted, c
Feeding colitis extracted proteins to dss mice attenuates inflammtion etcetc...
How does this work?
Wont these proteins be broken down etc by the digestive system... where is the CEP absorbed,showing a local effect etc.
So many questions!

And also, would a stool contain these CEPs etc?

As someone who does not fully grasp the concept of oral tolerance but appreciates nonetheles...

One theory i have come up with from the ng tube study with autologous fmt is, most crohnies have diesease in patches,
Espescially when not in a flare, the bacterial make up of the stool donated can change to a moderatey non-inflammatory one.
Could introducing these bacteria which appear in a non-inflamed phase in crohns to diseased parts of the digestive system attenuate inflamation and give them remission?

Because the study states that from the 5/25 that respondered to autologous fmt, their post fmt bacterial make up changed not to that of healthy indv ...but bought abut bacterial changes from baseline.

Would like to hear yr thoughts
Posted 12/30/2015 1:18 PM (GMT 0)
Rebel: Thats ok that they dissolve in the stomach. Oral tolerance might start in the stomach,dont know.
The idea is not to contaminate your mouth or esophagus so that you cant aspirate into the lungs.
OM
✚ New Topic ✚ Reply