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Posted 7/21/2016 10:02 PM (GMT 0)
www.gastroendonews.com/In-the-News/Article/07-16/GIs-Face-Growing-Patient-Interest-in-Cannabis/36993/ses=ogst

Hope the link works but the gist is that UC'ers and Crohnie's are asking their GI's about pot and the ones using it say it helps them.

from the article in gastroendonews.com:
"A 2014 study found that between 16% and 50% of IBD patients report using cannabis to control their symptoms, and the majority claim the drug is “very helpful” (Inflamm Bowel Dis 2014;20:472-480), Dr. Cheifetz said. Moreover, roughly half of patients with Crohn’s disease who have not used cannabis expressed interest in doing so if the substance were legal."
Posted 7/21/2016 11:06 PM (GMT 0)
Oh interesting. I guess the pressure from patients is really starting to show. What I find kinda funny though is how reluctant they are to recommend medical cannabis as simply a "pain killer" or general aid in symptom management. Sure there needs to be more clinical studies, but they are quick enough to prescribe other pharmaceutical drugs that have much more profound side effects than what cannabis seems to be associated with. Also they need more studies on edibles/cannabis oil consumption and not just smoking. I'm so confused about the smoking aspect. Keep running into info that says physically smoking HELPS UC...?!

On the contrary I've run into a lot of MMJ patients who claim cannabis is healing their disease, maybe its true, but in my case with UC it simply allowed me to have an easier time dealing with inflammation symptoms or side effects from medications and it only lasted temporarily. Working in tandem with conventional and natural therapies seems to be the best option to me.
Posted 7/22/2016 1:20 AM (GMT 0)
The Q came up at my local IBD support group meeting a few months back, posed by a 30ish female with many complications of UC over 12 yrs since DX. A young gastro responded, stating that many criteria would have to be met before a patient could be considered for medical mj treatment at the affiliated urban medical center, including absence of bipolar disorder in the patient & immediate family. / Old Hat (35 yrs with left-sided UC; presently in remission taking brandname Colazal)
Posted 7/22/2016 5:40 AM (GMT 0)
It's legal, even recreationally here in Oregon for me. I'm on the fence bringing it up to my GI doc. It's still federally against the law and he would put it in my medical record and I'd be afraid of my insurance denying me treatment or care because I was using MJ.

I'm no stranger to MJ, just haven't used it in a regular basis for a long time. I think I would probably vape it though, the edibles, I've heard can be a more intense high. There are strains specifically for bowel disease I might check out. Will I tell my doctor? Probably not, unless it was absolutely necessary.
Posted 7/22/2016 5:54 AM (GMT 0)
@Natofof9, did the MJ slow the motility of your bowels? I didn't expect that it would heal imflamation but slowing down bowels for nighttime would be ideal for me. I'm on Humira, it's doing a fairly decent job but something to keep bowels slowed up for the entire night would be great. Imodium is yuck, stomach upsetting and makes me kinda dizzy, would rather be mellowed from MJ.
Posted 7/22/2016 8:45 AM (GMT 0)
Amitriptyline slows your gut down and dulls down abdominal and back pain as an alternative.
Posted 7/22/2016 4:16 PM (GMT 0)
So far the few trials that have been run on MMJ and IBD have shown that it does nothing for the disease process, but does help with appetite, sleep and pain. I use it to sleep and for the first time in 7 years I can get through the whole night without waking up 3-5 times. Until it is studied in more detail, we have to err on the side of caution.
Posted 7/22/2016 4:41 PM (GMT 0)

Old Hat said...
The Q came up at my local IBD support group meeting a few months back, posed by a 30ish female with many complications of UC over 12 yrs since DX. A young gastro responded, stating that many criteria would have to be met before a patient could be considered for medical mj treatment at the affiliated urban medical center, including absence of bipolar disorder in the patient & immediate family. / Old Hat (35 yrs with left-sided UC; presently in remission taking brandname Colazal)

I wouldn't place much credence in the NY State rules/regulations/guidance on MMJ, their program is a disaster with stupid regulations, training requirements and even franchise costs.

NYS started January 1st and "As of July 12, 2016:
630 physicians have registered for the NYS Medical Marijuana Program, and 5,702 patients have been certified by their doctors."

Only 5,702 patients in all of NYS have signed up for it in 7 months.

Our GI's practice didn't have any GIs who signed up for the program when I last asked about it in March.
Posted 7/22/2016 5:21 PM (GMT 0)
So far the few trials that have been run on MMJ and IBD have shown that it does nothing for the disease process...

Actually there are more and more credible studies proving the effectiveness of MMJ for IBD:

medicalmarijuanainc.com/inflammatory-bowel-disease/
In one study, cannabis rich in tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) produced significant benefits to 10 or 11 patients with active Crohn’s disease, without side effects, and 5 of those 11 subjects achieved complete remission

blog.sfgate.com/smellthetruth/2016/03/12/worth-repeating-medical-marijuana-defeats-crohns-disease/
Patients are saying there is an alternative to toxic prescription drugs, and access to it is expanding...

A small human trial in Israel in 2011 found that “Of the 30 patients 21 improved significantly after treatment with cannabis. The average Harvey Bradshaw index improved from 14 to 7. The need for other medication was significantly reduced. Thus, before cannabis use 26 patients used corticosteroids, but only 4 after start of the cannabis therapy.

medicalmarijuanainc.com/inflammatory-bowel-disease/
Cannabis has been determined to effectively address the symptoms associated with inflammatory bowel disease disease. Two cannabinoids found in cannabis, tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) and cannabidiol (CBD), possess anti-inflammatory effects, offer pain relief, reduce nausea and stimulate appetite...
patients reported an improvement in abdominal pain (83.9%), abdominal cramping (76.8%), joint pain (48.2%), and diarrhea (28.6%)
Posted 7/22/2016 5:58 PM (GMT 0)

Verucasalt2.0 said...
@Natofof9, did the MJ slow the motility of your bowels? I didn't expect that it would heal imflamation but slowing down bowels for nighttime would be ideal for me. I'm on Humira, it's doing a fairly decent job but something to keep bowels slowed up for the entire night would be great. Imodium is yuck, stomach upsetting and makes me kinda dizzy, would rather be mellowed from MJ.



Yes, even before my official diagnoses during the worst flare up- it was the only thing keeping the diarrhea, vomit and pain down. Worked very effectively and instantaneously. Literally kept me going so I would keep high all day just to function, but once it wore off the symptoms returned and I'd have to get high again. CBD/THC oils were the next step. Incredibly strong so they numbed everything, even the fatigue- but once again felt it was temporarily masking symptoms (a little too well), not actually healing my inflammation. I do believe I'd still be on Remicade and other forms of medication if it weren't for MMJ though. Throughout my entire hospitalization this summer I took the oil in tandem with conventional meds and feel like it speed up the process. When pain was bad I kept refusing offered pain killers/morphine/pantoloc. Most I took was Gravol lol

Targeting endocannbinoids via cannabis in the digestive system has the potential for anti-inflammatory effects (they did a study on colitis-induced mice in conjunction with taking Sulphasalazine) which supports my belief that both cannabis and pharmaceuticals has played a huge part in my remission.
Israel seems to be leading in research for cannabis' effects on Crohn's/Colitis- hospitals even accommodating patients with it, but the conclusion so far is that it's effects are temporary and only symptomatic.

Its frustrating that they aren't putting enough funding into this research ASAP, but it's likely political reasoning behind it so what can we do. Just imagine a new health regime that incorporates diet, conventional medications with least amount of negative side effects, cannabis, supplements, mental therapy etc

Post Edited (Natof9) : 7/22/2016 12:02:58 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 7/22/2016 7:05 PM (GMT 0)
@Natof9, thanks for the info, very helpful.

Yes, MJ is a schedule 1 drug, so there really has not been very much research in its benefits. Our current POTUS and his justice admin is looking to put it in the docket to federally decriminalize, but with a new POTUS coming, not sure what will happen. California will probably be the next state to legalize for recreational use. I'm fortunate in that I can walk in to any numerous dispensaries to discuss strains and which one would be the most beneficial. I can purchase as recreational or easily get a medical card, which lowers the price a bit.
Posted 7/22/2016 7:22 PM (GMT 0)
I think it's great that it's becoming a viable option. Here in CA, i'ts been easy to get for many years. I had a prescription at one time and used it to try to calm my UC without luck. Nothing else worked for me either, so I wouldn't consider my experience on par with what other people could expect. I feel like there's a point where it becomes safer to have people able to buy, sell and consume with some regulations vs. people sneaking around, buying products that could be unsafe and driving under the influence. It was always surprising to me how many young people frequented the dispensaries. I would say a good chunk of the patients were under 21, and I am sure they were all using and driving. For me personally, MJ makes me very unproductive and unmotivated.

This is interesting, from the article linked above:

In terms of safety, use of cannabis appears to be associated with certain hazards, the expert said. Addiction, cognitive impairment, negative respiratory effects, cardiovascular toxicity, and activation of psychosis and schizophrenia have all been documented, Dr. Cheifetz said (Pharmacotherapy 2013;33:195-209).

“One study even found that using marijuana for longer than six months is linked with a fivefold increase in the risk of surgery in IBD patients, which is similar to the risk with tobacco smoking,” he added (Inflamm Bowel Dis 2014;20:472-480).

Gil Melmed, MD, director of the clinical IBD program at Cedars-Sinai Medical Center, in Los Angeles, echoed Dr. Cheifetz’s perspective. “When it comes to marijuana or any other complementary treatment, my general approach is to advise patients that while these approaches might improve symptoms and general well-being, evidence that these therapies reduce inflammation and promote mucosal healing is lacking.

“Patients need to understand the distinction between symptom management and intestinal healing, because they might misinterpret an improvement in symptoms and not appreciate the potential that there is clinically silent disease progression that can lead to future complications,”
Posted 7/22/2016 7:47 PM (GMT 0)
Yeah, MJ is a drug like any other, so there are side effects. So, like anything else, it's a risk versus benefits thing. Use it when UC is bothering you most, or something. It's interesting as a treatment option. Just another thing to add to your toolkit of possible uc treatments to try and see. Like everything that can treat uc, works for some but not all.
Posted 7/22/2016 7:52 PM (GMT 0)
The biggest problem with legal, recreational MJ so far? The dispensaries cannot use banking services, since it's still federally illegal, no big banks will serve them . They are dealing in large quantiles of cash, having to literally truckload out hoards of cash in armored trucks to God knows where. That's a recipe for criminal disaster, IMO. One of our senators is trying to work something out, to make it safer. I dunno, somehow legally launder the money, so the banks will take it? Seems easier to jus legalize it period, then it can be properly researched and allocated medically where it would be beneficial.
Posted 7/22/2016 9:57 PM (GMT 0)
I don't think we have to pay with cash here - I am pretty sure they accepted credit cards everywhere.
Posted 7/24/2016 3:14 AM (GMT 0)

IamCurious said...
So far the few trials that have been run on MMJ and IBD have shown that it does nothing for the disease process...

Actually there are more and more credible studies proving the effectiveness of MMJ for IBD:

medicalmarijuanainc.com/inflammatory-bowel-disease/
In one study, cannabis rich in tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) produced significant benefits to 10 or 11 patients with active Crohn’s disease, without side effects, and 5 of those 11 subjects achieved complete remission

blog.sfgate.com/smellthetruth/2016/03/12/worth-repeating-medical-marijuana-defeats-crohns-disease/
Patients are saying there is an alternative to toxic prescription drugs, and access to it is expanding...

A small human trial in Israel in 2011 found that “Of the 30 patients 21 improved significantly after treatment with cannabis. The average Harvey Bradshaw index improved from 14 to 7. The need for other medication was significantly reduced. Thus, before cannabis use 26 patients used corticosteroids, but only 4 after start of the cannabis therapy.

medicalmarijuanainc.com/inflammatory-bowel-disease/
Cannabis has been determined to effectively address the symptoms associated with inflammatory bowel disease disease. Two cannabinoids found in cannabis, tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) and cannabidiol (CBD), possess anti-inflammatory effects, offer pain relief, reduce nausea and stimulate appetite...
patients reported an improvement in abdominal pain (83.9%), abdominal cramping (76.8%), joint pain (48.2%), and diarrhea (28.6%)

Ive been commenting on this study for years now. You really shouldnt use it as evidence for MMJ in IBD. The primary study endpoint (# of patients in remission) wasnt even reached! They didnt even use an objective assessment for inflammation status (no scopes were performed, only patient perspective, i.e. HUGE bias).
Posted 7/24/2016 3:19 AM (GMT 0)

notsosicklygirl said...


This is interesting, from the article linked above:

In terms of safety, use of cannabis appears to be associated with certain hazards, the expert said. Addiction, cognitive impairment, negative respiratory effects, cardiovascular toxicity, and activation of psychosis and schizophrenia have all been documented, Dr. Cheifetz said (Pharmacotherapy 2013;33:195-209).

“One study even found that using marijuana for longer than six months is linked with a fivefold increase in the risk of surgery in IBD patients, which is similar to the risk with tobacco smoking,” he added (Inflamm Bowel Dis 2014;20:472-480).

Gil Melmed, MD, director of the clinical IBD program at Cedars-Sinai Medical Center, in Los Angeles, echoed Dr. Cheifetz’s perspective. “When it comes to marijuana or any other complementary treatment, my general approach is to advise patients that while these approaches might improve symptoms and general well-being, evidence that these therapies reduce inflammation and promote mucosal healing is lacking.

“Patients need to understand the distinction between symptom management and intestinal healing, because they might misinterpret an improvement in symptoms and not appreciate the potential that there is clinically silent disease progression that can lead to future complications,”

I bolded that part that matches what I said above.

Also wrt safety, the only long term prospective study (running since the 70's) on MJ use found that the ONLY thing MJ use was associated with was periodontal disease.
Posted 7/24/2016 12:02 PM (GMT 0)
Prednisone reduces symptoms and inflammation, but does it encourage mucosal healing? I don't think so, and MMF has far fewer side effects than pred. I don't know if this is considered mucosal healing but apparently it can help “stop the bleeding”:

/www.medicaljane.com/2014/06/28/medical-marijuana-and-inflammatory-bowel-disease-ibd/
There is evidence that THC may be helpful in reducing permeability of the epithelial lining, thus helping to reduce damage and decrease inflammation.

Inflammation caused by “leaky gut” stimulates further inflammation of and damage to the epithelial lining of the GI tract, creating a dysfunctional cycle. Therefore, increased leakiness of the epithelial lining can cause an increase in IBD symptoms, as well as damage to other body systems.

Actually there are very promising studies from the National Cancer Institute that are preclinical because they were performed on animals. According to them no clinical trials of cannabis use for medical treatment in humans have been published because it is still considered a schedule 1 drug.

www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/treatment/cam/patient/cannabis-pdq/#link/_13
A study in mice showed that cannabinoids may protect against inflammation of the colon and may have potential in reducing the risk of colon cancer, and possibly in its treatment.

Studies in mice and rats have shown that cannabinoids may inhibit tumor growth by causing cell death, blocking cell growth, and blocking the development of blood vessels needed by tumors to grow. Laboratory and animal studies have shown that cannabinoids may be able to kill cancer cells while protecting normal cells.

A laboratory study of delta-9-THC in hepatocellular carcinoma (liver cancer) cells showed that it damaged or killed the cancer cells. The same study of delta-9-THC in mouse models of liver cancer showed that it had antitumor effects. Delta-9-THC has been shown to cause these effects by acting on molecules that may also be found in non-small cell lung cancer cells and breast cancer cells.

A laboratory study of cannabidiol (CBD) in estrogen receptor positive and estrogen receptor negative breast cancer cells showed that it caused cancer cell death while having little effect on normal breast cells. Studies in mouse models of metastatic breast cancer showed that cannabinoids may lessen the growth, number, and spread of tumors.

Post Edited (IamCurious) : 7/24/2016 6:30:14 AM (GMT-6)

Posted 7/24/2016 5:26 PM (GMT 0)

IamCurious said...
Prednisone reduces symptoms and inflammation, but does it encourage mucosal healing? I don't think so, and MMF has far fewer side effects than pred. I don't know if this is considered mucosal healing but apparently it can help “stop the bleeding”:

/www.medicaljane.com/2014/06/28/medical-marijuana-and-inflammatory-bowel-disease-ibd/
There is evidence that THC may be helpful in reducing permeability of the epithelial lining, thus helping to reduce damage and decrease inflammation.

Inflammation caused by “leaky gut” stimulates further inflammation of and damage to the epithelial lining of the GI tract, creating a dysfunctional cycle. Therefore, increased leakiness of the epithelial lining can cause an increase in IBD symptoms, as well as damage to other body systems.

Actually there are very promising studies from the National Cancer Institute that are preclinical because they were performed on animals. According to them no clinical trials of cannabis use for medical treatment in humans have been published because it is still considered a schedule 1 drug.

www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/treatment/cam/patient/cannabis-pdq/#link/_13
A study in mice showed that cannabinoids may protect against inflammation of the colon and may have potential in reducing the risk of colon cancer, and possibly in its treatment.

Studies in mice and rats have shown that cannabinoids may inhibit tumor growth by causing cell death, blocking cell growth, and blocking the development of blood vessels needed by tumors to grow. Laboratory and animal studies have shown that cannabinoids may be able to kill cancer cells while protecting normal cells.

A laboratory study of delta-9-THC in hepatocellular carcinoma (liver cancer) cells showed that it damaged or killed the cancer cells. The same study of delta-9-THC in mouse models of liver cancer showed that it had antitumor effects. Delta-9-THC has been shown to cause these effects by acting on molecules that may also be found in non-small cell lung cancer cells and breast cancer cells.

A laboratory study of cannabidiol (CBD) in estrogen receptor positive and estrogen receptor negative breast cancer cells showed that it caused cancer cell death while having little effect on normal breast cells. Studies in mouse models of metastatic breast cancer showed that cannabinoids may lessen the growth, number, and spread of tumors.

Unfortunately all of this is fairly meaningless until we have it tested in humans. Lab studies and animal studies are, as Im sure you know, usually not representative of what happens in humans. A trial done by a Canadian group (I believe its the largest of its kind) showed no improvement with MMJ and that is our best available evidence. I still use MMJ myself, but Im not under the impression that it will send me into remission
Posted 7/24/2016 8:04 PM (GMT 0)
From my experience, ALL I KNOW, is that it instantly helps my gut...I was smoking it "illegally" and found instant relief, I then went on to Medical MJ and found no difference oter than it was at least 3X more expensive and I had to pay GST on top of it (Canadian tax) so I'm back to using street stuff cuz in my experience I find no difference when it comes down to how much better I can feel instantly.

As far as the added health risk....well I'm on Humira too and most here know what the potential side effects of that and all the other meds used to treat IBD so there's no sense IMO comparing apples to oranges...plus I smoke cigarettes anyway and really don't care about the possible risks from smoking mj....this is my opinion so please don't jump on me about it.
Posted 7/24/2016 8:49 PM (GMT 0)
I have considered medical mj as it is very easy to come across here. What has stopped me is that I was looking for something that would show an anti-inflammatory effect and that is something I have not found... a study that can show this. I have no pain, but it is interesting to read about the aspects on sleep and appetite.

If anyone comes across any anti-inflammatory studies please do post.
Posted 7/24/2016 9:19 PM (GMT 0)

Marauder93 said...
Also wrt safety, the only long term prospective study (running since the 70's) on MJ use found that the ONLY thing MJ use was associated with was periodontal disease.

Any links?

pb4 said...
rom my experience, ALL I KNOW, is that it instantly helps my gut...I was smoking it "illegally" and found instant relief, I then went on to Medical MJ and found no difference oter than it was at least 3X more expensive and I had to pay GST on top of it (Canadian tax) so I'm back to using street stuff cuz in my experience I find no difference when it comes down to how much better I can feel instantly.

Medical marijuana is illegal in the UK (thanks Tories - just another way you've made my life worse under your government) but I don't have any 'street' sources so to speak.

PS: My main interest in marijuana is in trying to treat abdominal pain and improve my sleep. I know it won't heal the underlying inflammation, so even if I could get hold of some I wouldn't come off my Crohn's meds.

Post Edited By Moderator (iPoop) : 7/25/2016 8:57:15 AM (GMT-6)

Posted 7/24/2016 9:26 PM (GMT 0)
I live in an "illegal" state (FL) but some cities are decriminalizing it to the point that is semi-legal in small quantities. I unfortunately do not live in or near those cities but it is slowly changing for the better.

PS NCOT you need to schedule a vacay to Toronto, a pot-friendly city and the PM is moving to legalize it in Canada isn't he?

Post Edited By Moderator (iPoop) : 7/25/2016 8:58:20 AM (GMT-6)

Posted 7/24/2016 9:46 PM (GMT 0)
Jeez, with the legalization of recreational MJ, there are dispensaries all over the freak'n place here in Oregon. Edibles were just OK'd, so a lot of that is available too.

I'm still leery at reporting use to any of my doctors but I'm at the point where I don't give a sh!t, if it helps me get a decent nights sleep, then I'll be using it. Lord knows the long term side effects couldn't be any worse than all the pharmaceutical crap I'm currently taking.

I plan on a visit to a dispensary very soon, I'll let you all know how it all pans out.
Posted 7/24/2016 9:56 PM (GMT 0)
NCOT: http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=181408

http://www.ada.org/en/science-research/science-in-the-news/cannabis-and-perio
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