Journal on the link between the microbiome and the brain-gut axis

Omg this article is me. This journal highlights the connection between the gut microbiome and the brain-gut axis: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4340328/


As most of you know, I was declared to be in clinical remission from UC two months ago, but none of my symptoms improved at all. (Frequent, uncontrollable D.) As you may also know, I've long been convinced that my primary problem is bacterial in nature, because the only things that have ever worked for me are augmentin, and vancomycin. They make me 100% normal in under 24 hours.

This article is the first article I've come across that suggests that the disease process is:

Microbiome dysbiosis > Causes the brain-gut axis to activate inflammation (which then can be enhanced by stress)

This is a major breakthrough to me, because it says that dysbiosis is the root of *everything,* and that inflammation is *not* the result of an over reactive immune system, but rather it's a real defense mechanism in response to dysbiosis.

This matches perfectly with the fact that the only thing that helps me are antibiotics. It also matches with the fact that after four courses of Vancomycin, I went into remission. But after two months without antibiotics, my inflammation has returned.

Post Edited (Canaveral) : 7/14/2017 1:48:26 PM (GMT-6)

the question of whether dysbiosis occurs 1st, or secondary to overactive immune, or even if gut membrane permeability problems occur 1st leading to immune response leading to dysbiosis, is open - and it may turn out the chicken and egg differ for different subgroups of UC.

It is also not clear that even if dysbiosis is the primary trigger in etiology (although you do have to ask what caused dysbiosis) that addressing dysbiosis is a cure. Seems reasonable that you do have to address the dysbiosis - but, like taking the flame away, it does not undo the lasting effects of exposure to the flame.

MarjieKay highlights the key test. It is the clearest statment of complexity and multifactorial etiology we have.

It bears repeating:

"Notwithstanding this, while the etiologies of IBS and UC remain elusive, there is consensus that both conditions result from a combination of genetic factors, disordered intestinal immunity, low-grade mucosal inflammation, and an altered microbiome, and that stress triggers flare-ups of disease activity via the brain–gut axis. Together, these factors suggest that a significant overlap between the two conditions is biologically plausible".

I still think you should try home FMT if no other probiotic therapies have worked. You might also get a mircobiome profile before a course of antibiotics, and than again when they make you "normal" and see if you can devise the most important strains to increase.

I believe in the promise of microbiome based therapies - I just don't believe in simplifications that leave out other proven factors like genetics.

I'm pretty confident dysbiosis is the cause, at least in my case, and I'd bet in many others. Someone suggested above that taking away the dysbiosis alone wouldn't undo the damage caused by UC, but I am proof that it does. I went into clinical remission, confirmed via biopsy, after four courses of Vancomycin alone. Once the Vancomycin was discontinued, my inflammation returned.

DBwithUC said...
and it may turn out the chicken and egg differ for different subgroups of UC

This has simply got to be true. There is just such a vast array of responses and symptoms I can't even fathom one single easy to pinpoint cause for everyone with UC or CD.

Canaveral, in your case where antibiotics knock the disease out (along with all good and bad bacteria, I'd imagine), were you attempting to repopulate with good bacteria before, during and afterwards?

And then I have often wondered.....how do we KNOW which strains are "good"?

Maybe someday there will be automatic micro biome analysis on healthy individuals, kind of like taking a fingerprint or backing up your computer in case of a crash. A good reference point.

Canaveral said...
I'm pretty confident dysbiosis is the cause, at least in my case, and I'd bet in many others. Someone suggested above that taking away the dysbiosis alone wouldn't undo the damage caused by UC, but I am proof that it does. I went into clinical remission, confirmed via biopsy, after four courses of Vancomycin alone. Once the Vancomycin was discontinued, my inflammation returned.

well this is evidence that dysbiosis is not your prime cause. it may be causing symptoms - but something keeps throwing you back into dysbiosis

This is going to be a rather air brained post, but I appreciate this thread and all the research and thought in it.

I recently learned about the gut/brain connection and all I know is since my last big flareup (2 weeks ago today) my thinking has slid way downhill. Thats how I look at it. It may be partly exhaustion as i'm working two jobs, but still doing the gaps diet and my symptoms exactly the same. I just really notice that this disease is severely affecting my brain. Is this is laymans terms what you folks are talking about - re strictly symptoms?

Canavarel, did you treat with probiotics before doing and after the antibiotics?

I did treat with probiotics before, during, and after.

Google fu won't find the answer, but it can help find possible answers that can be put into practice for real results.

I went to Mayo Clinic today. Doctor is skeptical that Vancomycin will work now that I no longer have C. Diff. So I'm going to start Vanco again tonight and prove it.

He does think in my case that there's something else going on, either instead of or in addition to UC, because as I've long contended, things aren't adding up.

I'm now creeping up on 12 hours without even the urge to have a bowel movement. My colon has been quiet. All of this, despite the fact that I spent all day today stressing out waiting to get word about whether or not my Mom has cancer. (And as it turns out, she has a precursor that turns into incurable leukemia 100% of the time...so you'll find me on other parts of these forums as well now..) Yesterday, I went 9 times during the day with cramping and urgency, and four times at night.

No one can convince me this is not a bacterial issue. 100% this is a bacterial issue.

Huh, I wonder if you should be on a mesalamine again. An odd suggestion perhaps, but it is based on this:

The U-M researchers discovered that mesalamine targets a bacterial stress response system that otherwise may help microorganisms survive in an environment of chronic inflammation. The microorganisms' stress response system produces a substance called polyphosphate. Bacteria that are unable to make polyphosphate are less virulent, defective in forming antibiotic-resistant biofilms, less able to colonize the gut and are more sensitive to inflammatory oxidants, which are produced by our bodies to combat harmful bacteria.

Jakob, Dahl and co-workers, as well as researchers from the U-M College of Pharmacy and U-M Medical School, showed that mesalamine targets the production of polyphosphate and caused bacteria to behave as if they lacked this vital substance.

"We now know that mesalamine is making certain bacteria more sensitive to conditions they would encounter in the inflamed gut, which might explain how mesalamine treatment improves the gut microbiome," said Jakob, the study's lead investigator.

"We do not want to say that this is the only mechanism by which mesalamine works," Jakob said. "But it is clear that mesalamine has an effect on microbes and targets a very specific defense system in those bacteria."
ns.umich.edu/new/releases/24475-u-m-researchers-discover-what-makes-drug-for-ulcerative-colitis-tick