Good read on IBD and MAP

This study shows that 47% of healthy non-IBD controls test positive for MAP and only 16% of medicated IBD patients do. Here is a break down of the percentages depending on which IBD med is being used :

OVERALL: **47% (47/100) healthy controls and 16% (40/246) IBD patients were IS900 positive (p<0.0001).

MEDICATED IBD'ers and MAP percentages found in them

** 17% of 143 patients receiving mesalamine and

**6% of 16 receiving sulfasalazine.

**None of the IBD patients receiving methotrexate (n = 9), 6-MP (n = 3), ciprofloxacin (n = 5) or Tacrolimus® (n = 3) had MAP DNA detectable in their blood.

Whole paper:
http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0002537#s4

So this alone kind of proves that MAP isn't a solitary culprit and it's more likely our immune systems creating the actual problems.

Otherwise, wouldn't MAP in those healthy people cause problems, too? it seems benign for them.....but not benign for US somehow......

Connor77, have you been taking any of the meds mentioned in this study? if so, it seems unlikely you'd test positive?

(edited 17% to 16%)

Post Edited (MarjieKay) : 8/16/2017 12:40:40 PM (GMT-6)

I'd be skeptical of Stephen Buhner's explanations of, well, just about anything.

The MAP theory is interesting but I am not sure it is any more an answer than the autoimmune bit is. And that's the thing, nothing makes 100% sense in every situation. Probably why they've been searching for a cure for so darn long. And I don't think there's any evil conspiracy keeping a cure away from us all, it's more like research says we're getting close with an exciting new study then it only turns out to be a dead end. Results can't be independently-replicated, etc.

As a parallel, I am a big proponent for electric cars, and multiple times a month there is an article about the pending research breakthrough that's going to give us 500mile/800Kilometer of range with batteries for an affordable price, make them cheaper than gas/petro cars, and everyone will want one! It's always just around the corner due to exciting new research in the lab. Yet, it disappears, can't be scaled up to production levels at the expected price-point and longevity, and so forth. I'm just kinda numbed to such exciting news about batteries around the corner.

I think it's no different the latest UC research. Some exciting new breakthrough is coming, yet here we are uncured... I'm comfortably-numb to it all...

Connor77 said...

beave said...
I'd be skeptical of Stephen Buhner's explanations of, well, just about anything.

No offense but unless you've read it, you can't critique it. He uses dozens of peer reviewed scientific references in the parts of his books where he describes pathogenesis in the body. All he's doing is summarizing the research.

But if you're not open to it then oh well.

I didn't critique it. I said I'd be skeptical of anything he wrote, and I stand by that. If I'm going to read a book about the subjects he covers, I'll read a book written by a proper authority.

Your thread can't handle skepticism or questioning? Must not be science on very firm ground.

@Connor77,

It must have been you that mentioned the book "Herbal Antibiotics"? I ended up buying a used copy of that. I haven't had time to read it yet, but I will. I have no doubt in the power of herbs.

If I had my life to do all over again, I'd be a naturopathic doctor and try and bridge the medical communities. But alas.....too close to retirement and my "next life".

The suggestion about the herbal ABX book has caused me to dig out my copy of "ADAPTOGENS: Herbs for Strength, Stamina and Stress relief" by David Winston & Steven Maimes. Have you ever looked into adaptogenic herbs?

I am wondering about finding a suitable immunomodulator amongst them.......I am at a calm place in my disease at the moment and feel like laying out my plan now is important. I am looking at ashwagandha and eleuthro right now. I need to look into cross compatibility with several of these. Herbs work better in concert.......I have a lot to learn.

As far as medicine having too much stock in "treatments" and that being a better long term profit model. Ummm......yeah, of course it is. And now people have no ability to reap any benefits from any research. With all research being funded by the drug makers.....it can be VERY easy to come to "conspiracy theory mentality".

I don't think you are, and I am not either.

Just simply a person who believes in the creativity of Mother Nature to help us solve our current challenges. If you look deeply, all meds come from plants it seems.

In fact, my doctor just had a test run on me (and I had no idea either---I thought the test was simply to assure my compatibility to 6mp) and I received a bill from the hospital for $2900, my insurance company refused to pay for it.

It's called a Prometheus test and it distinguishes between UC and Crohn's. Why did I even take this? it was a week before I was to have a new scope and biopsies taken. I questioned her about this at my follow up appt yesterday, too. She felt bad about the price tag, but still.....

I looked into the company who created this test and lo and behold......they make IBD meds !
I am not saying it's shady for certain, but it did give me pause. The test showed a clear UC pattern......ok, I thought all the previous biopsies from other scopes have already done that!

Adaptogens book, here :

https://www.amazon.com/Adaptogens-Strength-Stamina-Stress-Relief/dp/1594771588/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1503055299&sr=8-1&keywords=adaptogens+david+winston

EDIT :

Another great book "ADAPTOGENS in Medical Herbalism Elite Herbs and Natural Compounds for Mastering Stress, Aging and Chronic Disease" by Donald R. Yance. I forgot I had this one, too! I have a really good feeling about this......we may need to start a new thread Connor

Post Edited (MarjieKay) : 8/18/2017 5:49:48 AM (GMT-6)

It's like a cult, where any detractors are drowned out, lol.

Wow. Angry cult member warning. I didn't realise only one viewpoint was permitted, lol.

Well, that is a little different than the personal attack you launched at me.
Whether or not you find contrary arguments uncomfortable , or unnecessary, it is important to allow those views to be expressed. It is unreasonable to suggest that only one viewpoint may proceed, and another may not.
MAP is, sadly, a giant red herring.

ambling said...
It's like a cult, where any detractors are drowned out, lol.

Sorry you had to post this. Too bad your attack dog Gary is no longer around.

Connor77 said...
AMAP therapy is not the magic bullet for everyone, but it has a much higher success rate than biologics.

Can we have some citations for this please? For both UC and Crohn's, if possible.

If that was aimed at me, my question was 100% genuine. I want to see the evidence. I don't have any particular bone to pick with MAP. In fact I once had an opportunity to try AMAT; my GI didn't particularly believe in the MAP theory but he was open-minded enough to give it a go or refer me to somebody else who would. I didn't take it up in the end, and opted for surgery instead. I'm less critically ill now and no longer steroid-dependent, so I'm in a better position for trying long-term treatments out.

I'll probably Stelara next, but if that doesn't work, then I'll have literally exhausted all the conventional meds.

If there is believable evidence that MAP works, I'm all for it. But the studies have to be decent ones, i.e randomized controlled trials and with more than 5 participants involved.

@Connor77

I am going to add my email address to my personal information, in case a lock on the thread does occur. I am very interested in hearing about how this goes for you and also any new information you may gather.

Maybe we could start a private FB group or Reddit group to discuss these things more in the future? I guess I thought this forum was a perfect place for discussing these things, but I could be wrong.