North South gradient and IBD

And lo and behold, curcumin also increases Nitric Oxide in plasma (among other effects).

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23013352

It often feels like there are all these threads that keep leading in similar directions, but they never seem to end up at any useful medical conclusions--we still just get more and new immune suppression drugs (I know that's an exaggeration, but...)

Post Edited (FSLondon) : 1/31/2018 9:09:51 AM (GMT-7)

I worked with a lady who was a chronic pain sufferer who's doctor actually drew a palm tree and sun on his prescription pad and gave it to her. Doctor told her she can always consider moving south if the winter cold is the cause of a lot of her seasonal pain troubles. She laughed and said she'd try and convince her husband (hubby was a tough sell)

Yeah, I grew up in NJ (lived there for 18 years), moved to Florida for 6 years and been in Atlanta for 9. My IBD was just diagnosed. Moving South didn't work for me

As far as I can tell iNOS is the problem, dietary nitrates such as in spinach will down regulate iNOS.
There is also a ischemia UC theory,so it is all up in the air as to what is really going on.

Here is part of the problem ADMA which cases enos uncoupling making superoxide. Looks like it is
even worse in crohns. Citrulline will down regulate ADMA at least in arteries.

I get worse by taking arginine. Citrulline does not seem to bother me.


/www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19575355

BH4 gets destroyed when enos becomes uncoupled.
/www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26928964

Going down these paths due to blood pressure, but perhaps they also lead into IBD.

Old Mike

Post Edited (Old Mike) : 2/3/2018 1:29:56 PM (GMT-7)

Hey Mark: It is quite interesting that we have at least 3 NO generating systems in the body,lots of
back up,got to be important. The sunshine system just discovered not long ago. I believe it is quite possible that mainstream science has led themselves down a garden path way too much with vitamin D, and had missed the NO connection all of these years, at least with sunshine. Start searching MAP and NO,
some interesting info comes up. I think I also posted just last week on the arthritis and MAP connection, again which they just discovered. But all that aside MAP could be just a bystander, and not causal. Anyway it is also possible that the NO backup systems are there to down regulate, iNOS if it gets out of control and making excess superoxide,or as a true backup if arginine intake or citrulline synthesis is low.
At any rate, seems quite important. Below is the MAP arthritis info.
Old Mike
/medicalxpress.com/news/2018-01-bacteria-linked-rheumatoid-arthritis.html

search this document for Nitric oxide you will see a connection with MAP killing and il-10. Map seems to upregulate il-10 in infected macrophages which down regulates NO and killing.
/link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.1186/1297-9716-45-54.pdf

In crohn's il-10 seems to be low, trials with il-10 dont seem to work. It seems to down regulate inflammation, probably by reducing inos. But if MAP is causal, that might be the wrong approach.
All the inflammation and ulceration we see,might be collateral damage,from the body's attempt to kill pathogens,which in our case is not effective. What we see as IBD symptoms are downstream results from the body's desperate attempt to kill something, IMO.

Post Edited (Old Mike) : 2/4/2018 8:06:11 AM (GMT-7)

Canada Mark, it seems like we have lots of similarities. Sunshine certainly helps me--I tend to feel 100% fine in July and August and when skiing in the spring. I take vit D daily but it doesn't seem to matter much. Powdered tumeric, black pepper an WOO all help me as well. The two times I've been on antibiotics since diagnosis I also felt fine.

I was given a diagnosis of UC but it's right sided only. I wonder if another GI might've called it crohns colitis.

OM can you explain the relationship between Nitric Oxide and INOS? It's a bit unclear to me.

Hi London, abx (Cipro and Flagyl) work amazing for me - Flagyl (Metronidazole) specifically is the most effective. In fact I was just thinking now about it and even my food intolerances go away when I take Flagyl. The combo of WOO, Turmeric, Ginger and Pepper that I have been doing as of late seems to do similar but not as fast or 'good'. And I agree with you about "they never seem to end up at any useful medical conclusions".

Old Mike - Thanks, my mom and grandmother both have rheumatoid arthritis in their hands. I guess we will find out a little more in a few months when they release the results of the RedHill abx trial. They are doing open label for everyone that got the placebo right now. Maybe I will ask my mom if she every too Flagyl and if she noticed an improvement in her hands.

Canada Mark, glad I'm not the only one not to get it.

And as for your preferred combo, same here. My arthritis started flaring quite badly two weeks ago (after a failed experiment in reintroducing potatoes into my diet) and I started back on a twice daily cocktail of WOO, Tumeric and Pepper and feel better finally. Since we seen to respond in similar ways, I will add ginger to the mix. Do you use fresh grated ginger?

I've said it before and I'll say it again, I think some of us clearly have untreated dysbiosis as the root cause of our IBD. I really wish they'd do more to figure out what bacteria/fungi is the source of the problem and how to get rid of it (is it MAP, is it something else in a biofilm that's hard to penetrate, etc?). Even my GI has come around to the view that they should be looking at dysbiosis and not immune suppression to treat IBD for at least some patients.

@London. I hate the thought of paying $20 or so for curcumin supplements (though I have before a few times) and I question if there is something else in tumeric as a whole that compliments the curcumin, so recently I started placing a teaspoon (roughly, between a teaspoon and a tablespoon) of organic powdered turmeric, the same amount of organic powdered ginger and a 1/2 teaspoon of cinnamon powder and just mix it in small glass for a few seconds and chug it down. The cinnamon doesn't mix well and sort of floats. Think shot glass size amount of water but in a larger cup to mix it with a teasoon. I have some empty gel caps that I grind black and white whole pepper up in and take that with it. I also do this cause I'm kinda lazy and it only takes a few second to mix it up and chug it down. I've been doing this twice a day for a while now. I also take my WOO with it.

By far though, my best response historically is to Imuran (azathioprine) and WOO taken together. This combo twice a day brought me remission over time and normal once a day BM's for the most part. Minus any food intolerance slip ups. However I can actually eat the odd restaurant bun or piece of bread/desert cake now without consequence. Maybe the combo of things dampen the inflammation. The last few weeks have been pretty exceptional though.

I would be cautious trying something new though. The worst is taking those steps back with progress.

And my GI as well brought up the RedHill abx trial last visit admitting he actually does hope it works - or helps.


@OM - that University of Groningen 'Inducible nitric oxide synthase in intestinal inflammation' is really interesting. Thanks for posting that. Especially with smooth muscle relaxation etc. or I think they called it muscle contraction inhibition. Same with the beneficial effect on tolerance - I noted that they said to much NO however, can have the opposite effect.

@Old Mike:

I wrote the MAP researcher about NO cause it's been bugging me - the success with some of these items on my end as well as others on here. I mentioned WOO, Curcumin, Imuran, Grape Seed Extract etc etc- all seem to increase blood plasma NO or inhibit iNOS. It's the Imuran I find really interesting because they keep saying it is bacteriostatic but are not sure why.

I was curious of his take because it's really intriguing. Response is below. You will like the papers he linked.

Also remember he is a MAP guy so...

---------------

I'll nominate you guys for the Nobel Prize! (He means the group here on healing well, haha)

You are all definitely onto something.
We have been looking at biofilm in some depth. The mycobacteria in CD produce copious amounts of biofilm. Enough to see macroscopically as a slime in the cultures.

/www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25189865
/www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3815757/

I need to think about this
J.

The biofilm stuff is interesting.
Yes imuran does inhibit inos.
Gets complex, but notice all the drugs that work, inhibit all these
molecules, remicade inhibits tnf,imuran inos,plus a million other attempts
by the immune system to destroy something. All these inflammatory molecules
are causing the downstream tissue destruction, and even dysbiosis,collateral damage.

OM

imuran and inos
/www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16473374

big list of nf-kb inhibitors
/www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2955987/

going back in the chain tnf can activate nf-kb
www.pathwaycommons.org/pc/record2.do?id=543635

as an aside fluoride was first used in toothpaste starting in 1914, MI did not increase until the late 1920's. Also around the 1900's a lot of food was preserved with nitrate. Anyhow from what I can find
fluoride has some killing effect on mouth bacteria, and or it alters its metabolism. So might a question be that we would have a lot more nitrate reducing bacteria in the mouth if not using fluoride toothpaste.

Post Edited (Old Mike) : 2/8/2018 2:40:28 PM (GMT-7)