OT: Bill Maher voices skepticism on medical profession

CCinPA said...
Well, I do think that Apple rips people off lol. The difference is that there's other cell phones you can buy and if push came to shove you could do without a cell phone completely if you can't afford it. As hard as it may be to believe you do not need a cell phone to live.

Can't say the same thing about many, if not most, medications.

Sure I'll give you that. But by the end of the day they're a for profit corporation. I personally would rather they exist and make their 20% profit than they not be around at all and us not have any medication.....

My comparison to Apple was more in reference that everyone calls these pharma industries greedy but no one ever calls other firms such as tech greedy....again for comparison, some companies that make more profit than Pfitzer's 20.7%. Google (22.5%), Facebook (27.1%), Microsoft (31.7%), Bank of America (28.7%), and just 2 fun ones, AbbVie (maker of Humira) had profit margins of 9.9% while P&G (maker of Asacol HD) had profit margins of 5.9%.

notsosicklygirl said...
I am not an antivaxxer. I don't even think about this topic much. I have all my vaccinations. I simply don't care what other people believe. You want to believe in unicorns, or whatever, go ahead. Not my business to tell people what to believe. They have to look at the evidence and make their own decisions.

You should care about whether the people around you are vaccinated. Particularly because if you're on UC medication, you've likely got a compromised immune system and you could literally die of a disease that nobody should have if they're vaccinated. Ditto if you have young children. Kids are getting diseases like measles because of idiot antivaxxers spreading nonsense. This is not a situation where anyone should agree to disagree. We should all agree on the facts, which are that vaccines are overall very safe and widespread vaccination has saved literally hundreds of thousands of needless deaths.

Bull101 said...

CCinPA said...
Well, I do think that Apple rips people off lol. ..../quote]

Sure I'll give you that. But by the end of the day they're a for profit corporation. I personally would rather they exist and make their 20% profit than they not be around at all and us not have any medication.....
....

Apple has posted a Gross Profit Margin of just under 40% for decades. Corporations have a myriad of tricks to understate profit, so who knows what the real #'s are. When founders have net worth's in the $100's of billion, greed sure plays a part....just as it does for shareholders (us).

It's all another of life's many conundrums.

notsosicklygirl said...
Religion has killed a lot of people and people still choose to believe in it. I am aware that having kids is stressful and that I can't control people. If I had kids, I would accept that, and vaccinate my own children. I can't expect everyone on the planet to worry about my family. For myself, I don't worry a ton.

Since we are referencing Apple

Siri, show me the worst pandemic of all time.

The Spanish Flu Pandemic of 1918

The deadliest in history, infected an estimated 500 million people worldwide—about one-third of the planet’s population—and killed an estimated 20 million to 50 million victims, including some 675,000 Americans. The 1918 flu was first observed in Europe, the United States and parts of Asia before swiftly spreading around the world. At the time, there were no effective drugs or vaccines to treat this killer flu strain. Citizens were ordered to wear masks, schools, theaters and businesses were shuttered and bodies piled up in makeshift morgues before the virus ended its deadly global march.
------
Antivaxxers are playing a deadly game and putting themselves and others at a very high risk.

We need to stop tossing around corrosive terms like "anti-vaxxer" anytime someone questions standard practice. Questioning practices is how we refine our institutions to do better. If you aren't allowed to question, then practices become dogma and suddenly there is no scientific reason for why we do them, we just "do them".

The evidence is mounting that the annual flu shot is not only ineffective for most of the population, it is also immune compromising. It affects the body's ability to fight other seasonal viruses, and now we are discovering it affects the body's ability to fight the flu on its own. A small cohort of the population (below) benefits, while a large portion does not.

Reuters just broke that story today, but here is a local news version:
https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/serial-flu-shots-may-limit-body-s-ability-to-fight-virus-in-future-researchers-1.3147903

Additionally, the FDA has admitted that their 2017-18 flu shot schedule was less than 36% effective: "Although the initial report of 36 percent overall efficacy for this year’s vaccine in the United States that has been reported by our colleagues at the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) is better than some might have predicted, there is still clearly significant room for improvement." (SOURCE: https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/statement-fda-commissioner-scott-gottlieb-md-efficacy-2017-2018-influenza-vaccine)

People need to stop politicizing medicine into camps of "pro-vax" and "anti-vax". Every vaccine is its own unique drug, with its own research trials, with its own risks and side effects. Some carry more risk than others. You can't just say all vaccines are good or all vaccines are bad. Good for whom? Bad for whom? Which vaccine are we talking about?

I am tired of the one-dimensionality of this debate, I blame the media and big pharma for creating the dumb polarity.

quincy said...
Mark....have you had the flu? I can count the times and remember each vividly because it was horrific. I can't imagine having one of the strains in the vaccines of epidemic and lethal varieties...OMG!

I agree with the polarisation of thoughts...media tends to leave out most important info and then it begins the regurgitation of untruths. Media, however, is how info gets out there....and public has a huge responsibility to sort it out. Ever listen to the stupid leading questions to the chosen subject specialists???...(explitives of choice here, and I have at least 10) idiots!

q

I've had it several times. The first time was a total nightmare because I didn't know what was happening until it was too late. The second two times, I had a Chinese medicine doctor and I recovered very fast with herbal medicine. The first time, it took me 3 weeks to fully recover. The second time took 8 days, the third time took 6 days.

I won't get chemicals injected into my body, especially if the medicine has such a low rate of efficacy. I'd accept the chemicals, maybe, if the efficacy rate was 90% or higher. That would be a real bargain! I think people should get more educated about the wide array of highly effective natural remedies for dealing with the flu virus. The common cold is harder to deal with because what we call the common cold could be hundreds of different viruses; but the flu virus, even with all its varieties, is one specific thing, and there are really good herbs that can stop it. If modern medicine's vaccines fail, then they can't stop you from getting the full blown flu like herbal medicine can. All they can do is give you supportive therapy, and if it gets really bad they hospitalize you.

I want stuff that works. I don't want gimmicky non-sense. 36% efficacy is pretty abysmal, and the government is paying big pharma billions of dollars to provide flu vaccines. Not to mention, now that there's evidence that the flu vaccine actually lowers to immune system to other viruses, I will definitely never touch it!

They need to go back to the drawing board and figure out what they're doing. I won't accept snake oil.

It really isn't that at all....
People who sensibly ask about things to do with vaccines, aren't labelled antivaxxers.

People who repeatedly claim that vaccines are "bad", and that they "cause autism", or make other misleading claims, are eventually considered anitvaxxers, for good reason.

Wild claims made against vaccines, and not any vaccine in particular, really puts most people off.
And so it should.

notsosicklygirl said...
I am with you Mark. Anyone who wants to have a discussion is quickly bullied and called an "anti-vaxxer", then they are told it's all fact, and they basically call you stupid if you say anything more.

It's really hard. People are so brainwashed by the media. As soon as the media tells people what to think or what to fight about, people just start fighting and taking sides. I'm so tired of it. It's like people's brains get turned off and nobody is capable of a rational conversation.

The fact that we can't have a rational discussion about vaccines in the media just goes to show that the conglomerates in charge of the news networks are the same people in charge of big pharma.

notsosicklygirl said...
I 100% believe in vaccines and I have all of mine. I also, however, see what you're saying... Anytime a person questions something, even if it's only remotely related to vaccines, people jump down their throat and tell them they are a bad person, or they hate humanity, or they are trying to kill off the species and their offspring. Sheesh. Then it's funny because that same person will have some cooky story about why they can't get vaccinated, or vaccinate their children, and it's everyone else's responsibility to make sure they are protected - yet those same people would run you over for crossing the street at the wrong time.

Yeah... and it all goes back to people not understanding how medicine is really supposed to work. Every person has a different constitution, different needs, different schedules. Some people shouldn't get vaccines. Some people should get them, but on an expanded schedule. Others... it doesn't really matter. Some people (like me) have really weird, paradoxical reactions to some medicines that I chalk up to my genetic metabolism (had this tested), so I have to do a lot of research on drugs before I decide to take them. Even then it's a calculated risk!

But you just can't discuss these nuances with some people. They foam at the mouth and then the conversation is over.

notsosicklygirl said...
You can't force people to stop believing things - all you can do is try to show them the truth. You can't force people to do a lot of things that would be beneficial to them or others.

You could talk about drinking urine and get a better response than you would get if you say you think perhaps there should be titers before giving booster shots.

Life sorts people out. Nobody makes it out of here alive. Eventually bodies start to have challenges, systems fail, people get diseases... and then they have to eat humble pie because ideology and mind tricks are not going to make their problems go away. Illness really is the best antidote for denial! Don't get me wrong, I would NEVER wish illness on anybody, especially something as horrific as UC. I just mean... getting sick changes everything. It did for me. The way I saw life changed forever, including my beliefs.

I dunno... I feel like if people can afford to never change their beliefs, then they are living a privileged existence. Not much is going wrong so they have the blessing of making up whatever story they want about life and believing in it. I gotta say... getting sick has made me a much deeper thinker about life. I won't give this disease credit or talk about "silver lining" or some crap because I hate UC, but living life from this perspective has made me wiser, is all I'm saying.

One of my biggest takeaways: nothing is ever as it appears to be!

Perfectly said, ambling!

Let's keep it nice and civil folks. Once people get defensive and feel singled out, things often turn to flaming/attacking. None of that please.